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Serious Compacts

chicks said:
Another good sign for the u4/3 format - German lensmaker Schneider announced a new line of lenses for the format, starting with this 14mm f/2.0. Pretty sure it'll be priced way out of my league.
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Mine, too, but worth every penny to those who can afford 'em.
 
chicks said:
Just send it my way, Wiggy, I already have the adapter, it'll be digital today! Problem solved. :-)
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Hehehe. Sure. It's in the mail. Oh, by the way, I also have the later 55mm f/1.2, shall I toss that one is as well? And my 135mm f/2.5, you'll probably need that. 35mm f/2 to go along with it?

Well...you can probably tell I grew up with a Canon FX in my hands. Canon FL glass has always been my favorite. I love FD mount too, but FL was what I started with and I will love it forever.

So what adapter are you using? Does it have an optical element in it? 2X crop-factor, yes? What are your thoughts on your adapter with Canon manual focus lenses?
 
I use a cheapie Chinese adapter, which wiggles a bit and focuses past infinity, but none of the MFT adapters I'm aware of use any glass.

I really enjoy my FD lenses, in spite of the 2X crop factor. I'm a novice photog, but here are a couple with the FD 135/2.5, which I love, except for its weight. Jpg straight OOC, zero PP.

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Oh, I wear glasses too, and the VF-2 works wonders, especially in full sun. Not cheap, but considering that Leica now sells the exact same EVF at 4X the price, a bargain. :-)
 
chicks said:
I use a cheapie Chinese adapter, which wiggles a bit and focuses past infinity, but none of the MFT adapters I'm aware of use any glass.

I really enjoy my FD lenses, in spite of the 2X crop factor. I'm a novice photog, but here are a couple with the FD 135/2.5, which I love, except for its weight. Jpg straight OOC, zero PP.
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Wow... Nice photos! The main reason I went for the special Sony Lenses was because I did not have the others or I might have. I can't afford them either but I am glad I got them. Apparently aside from the actual mounts the mirror less cameras have a different amount of distance the light must travel between the lens and the sensor. That is what makes them smaller. With mine when you remove the lens the sensor is right there,pretty much front and center in the lens opening. As I understand it this reduced distance makes it possible to make the lenses more compact but requires different geometry inside. Thus the special models. Considering what I spent to have a pocket sized camera with DSLR capabilities I'm going for the least bulky lens I can get. Oh... One thing that may dribe you nuts though on this one. The 18/55 lens has the focus ring on the far end of the lens while the 18/200 has it on the inside near the body. One thing they do though is that when you focus manually the camera concentrates on a very small section of the vies so that the focus of obvious even with the Lcd screen or bifocal eyesight. It does work.
 
chicks said:
Oh, I wear glasses too, and the VF-2 works wonders, especially in full sun. Not cheap, but considering that Leica now sells the exact same EVF at 4X the price, a bargain. :-)
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Yep, the VF-2 is something I could not do without. That and the Olympus 40-150mm lens were the 2 best purchases I made for my Pen camera.
 
Kahoona said:
Apparently aside from the actual mounts the mirror less cameras have a different amount of distance the light must travel between the lens and the sensor. That is what makes them smaller.
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That is correct. In the history of cameras, the SLR (Single Lens Reflex) design allowed the photographer to see through the lens that was taking the photo, instead of a second lens (TLR) or viewfinder (rangefinders and others). This was a big advantage for some kinds of photography and quickly caught on with the public and professionals.

However, in order that the light from the lens could be seen by both the photographer and the film (nowadays a sensor instead), there had to be some way of splitting the light or redirecting it as needed. The SLR design used a mirror that flipped down to block the film but send the light to the viewfinder until the shutter was pressed; then the mirror flipped up out of the way, the shutter curtain opened, and the film could be exposed. It all happened very fast; just the blink of an eye for the most part. But the viewfinder was dark until the mirror flipped down again.

Some camera makers experimented with ways to split the light optically so it went to both places all the time; they used a special prism instead of a flipping mirror. But splitting light means each destination gets less light, so it required darker viewfinders and high-speed film for the same exposures. Not really a big seller for the most part.

The first digital SLR cameras (DSLR) worked the same way as the older SLR. In fact, Sony is now experimenting again with prisms to split light like some did in the past on their Alpha series cameras. I don't know if it will catch on or not, but they're reviving the concept.

DSLR cameras mostly have smaller sensors than a traditional film camera. The current standard (not all use it, but many do) is 'APS-C'. This is about 1.5 times smaller than the traditional 35mm film camera frame size. So if you mount an older lens designed for film on a newer DSLR camera, it will have a 'crop factor', meaning it will behave as if it were a longer lens. A 50mm lens will behave like a 75mm lens, and so on.

The newer EVIL cameras have a new concept made possible by electronics in place of optics. They remove the optical viewfinder and replace it with an electronic (LCD or OLED) viewfinder, or they do away with the viewfinder completely and just have an LCD on the back of the camera.

With less 'stuff' in between the lens and the sensor (flipping mirror, prism, etc), they can (and did) make the body more compact. The critical measurement is called the 'flange to film' distance; an archaic term, but it essentially means the distance from the rear of the lens mount to the film plane (now a sensor instead), and it is measured in mm.

Adapters are possible when the older camera lenses have a longer registration distance (another way of saying flange to film) than the new camera. So with the new EVIL cameras, many old manually-focused lenses are finding a new lease on life. Not everybody cares about this - manual lenses are a PITA to work with in some cases, and newer auto-focus lenses are quite nice, nothing to sneeze at. But some just like the older lenses. They are often 'faster' lenses (wider apertures) which allow some special effects with background blurring and that sort of thing, and some consider them still superior optically to a lot of modern lenses. Some of us just have a lot of them rattling around and would like to put them back to use again.

There are essentially three competing systems for smaller EVIL cameras that have interchangeable lenses. The micro 4/3 standard is very nice and is becoming very popular, several manufacturers use it. However, the sensor is even smaller than APS-C, so the 'crop factor' with older manual focus lenses is 2x, meaning a 50mm lens acts as if it were a 100mm lens. This is nice if you want to do a lot of telephoto work, but not if you want to do wide-angle, because there are not a lot of older manual focus lenses out there that are still considered wide-angle after being multiplied by 2!

Sony also has a system for EVIL, and it uses the APS-C size sensor. So older manual focus lenses mounted on it have the same 1.5 crop factor as most DSLR cameras.

And Samsung has also introduced some EVIL cameras, also with APS-C sized sensors, and with yet a different style mount.

So it seems the market is still developing (no pun intended) for smaller mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras. I have invested in the Pentax DSLR system, which lets me keep all my older Pentax lenses, autofocus and manual focus, from my old Pentax film cameras, so that's a win for me. But I'd love to put my older Canon FD mount lenses back into service, and Canon, unlike Pentax, moved from the FD mount to a totally incompatible mount (EOS or EF) a long time ago, leaving all my old lenses as orphans. You can get adapters to use Canon FD lenses on Canon EOS bodies, but they are crap (my opinion, some people like them); they have an optical lens inside to retain infinity focus and it degrades the images.

So of the three 'systems' out there for mirrorless cameras, I'm currently learning towards Samsung. The rest of them are also outstanding systems, probably better than the Samsung in many ways, but I think this will fit my personal needs best. Haven't decided yet, though. Mind still open.
 
I'm itching to get an Olympus E-P3. Right now I shoot with a Canon 5D Mk.II along with a Ricoh GR Digital III. I find the Canon a bit too big to take with me everywhere I go and the Ricoh, although a wonderful point & shoot with the best user interface I've found on ANY camera, it's a bit limiting at times due to the small sensor.
 
chicks said:
Is Canon finally joining the party?

http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/06/announcement-day-july-24-2012-cr2/
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Well, it will be interesting to see what happens. We've got one, maybe two successful formats for removable-lens compacts, and a bunch of flops.

Success: m4/3, Sony NEX.

Maybe: Samsung NX. Fuji X-Pro1

Nope: Pentax Q, Nikon 1 (reasons for both - small sensors, huge crop factor)

The single largest reason for the m4/3 success is that it is an open standard that anyone can make by joining the consortium. We've got 3rd-party lenses being made for that mount.

What will Canon bring to the party? Another incompatible mount? A small-than-acceptable sensor? The question is whether or not they understand the market better than Nikon and Pentax did.
 
Ya sure see a lot of those little Nikon J1's in places like BB & Target, though, plus their TV ads. They must sell a bunch of 'em to some demographic. Soccer moms? :dunno:
 
chicks said:
Ya sure see a lot of those little Nikon J1's in places like BB & Target, though, plus their TV ads. They must sell a bunch of 'em to some demographic. Soccer moms? :dunno:
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I'd like to see the sales figures. Remember that the major retailers push product based on the demands of the manufacturer if they get good deals and the salespeople get good spiffs.

I'm not knocking the camera, of course. Success in the market has little or nothing to do with image quality.

One of the best tools I've found for exploring popularity - and also image quality, which is nice when trying to make buying decisions - is Flickr's Camera Finder:

http://www.flickr.com/cameras/

http://www.flickr.com/cameras/nikon/#models

I do see the use trending upwards, which might indicate some level of success. But it has 88 average users, compared to 3,800 for the D90 (which admittedly has been out longer).

If someone were to make an argument that the new Nikon format will make it, I probably could not argue against it very well; it's just a gut feeling that it doesn't fit the needs of people wanting a 'serious compact' all that well. But the market will decide, not me!
 
I don't think those Nikons are selling at all. The prices have already dropped $200 for the J1.

Seems that Olympus is introducing new models every three weeks. The Olympus PEN E-PL1 body can now be had for $150. The Olympus PEN Mini E-PM1 for $300 w/lens.
 
HandyHamlet said:
I don't think those Nikons are selling at all. The prices have already dropped $200 for the J1.

Seems that Olympus is introducing new models every three weeks. The Olympus PEN E-PL1 body can now be had for $150. The Olympus PEN Mini E-PM1 for $300 w/lens.
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Well, Olympus has two problems. One is the HUGE scandal that has practically forced it into bankruptcy in the past year and the other is that as they introduce newer models, the prices on the discontinued models drops fast. The latter is a good thing for photographers on a budget, though. As to the former, I sure hope Olympus survives - and as a camera company. Some angel investors want to buy it and raid it for their endoscopy business and dump the rest. We'll see how things go.
 
Yep, that's a shame about Olympus. Way to **** up a great company. Always liked their products. Still carry a five yr old Stylus 750 everywhere.

Stylus snapshot last night.
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This place is not far from my home. They ship very fast and are good people to deal with. No B&H but for small accessories and lighting they are a good source. They have a lot of different lens adapters for the 4/3 sensor cameras. I just thought the link may be useful for putting those older pieces of glass back to work.

http://www.cowboystudio.com/category_s/424.htm
 
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