Should I upgrade my table or replace it?
- Thread starter AceTechHD
- Start date
Angry Possum
Well-Known Member
Mmmmm perhaps clean the needle carefully. Could of gotten some crap on it. But please ****ask advice on the forum here first on cleaning a needle tip, as many members dont recommend using any solvent on a needle. I think possibly you could of picked up some gunk on the needle,,,, especially when u clean an album and dont dry them thoroughly. I did it to my needle, I was into cleaning records, without drying them thoroughly, I took off a nice black particle off the tip one day after looking at the tip of the stylus. My needle sounded mint after that. So me personally Id start there. I used a very slight amount of ISO alcohol on a cotton swab and lightly touched the surface of the needle carefully.
AceTechHD
Active Member
You got it! My Lab-1600 had it's stock AT P-mount cart. Had incredibly low surface noise and unreal stereo separation. First time I heard that table I didn't believe what I was hearing. The table cost me an earth shattering $10. Unfortunately the Lab-1600 began running really slowly. I wasted money ordering a new belt for it and it still ran like molasses. Decided to see how much it would cost to get it repaired and they wanted over $100. Safe to say that is the end of my Realistic Lab-1600 may it rest in peace in my closet. You read my mind exactly. I'm going to go ahead and order the NAGAOKA MP-110H and I'm going to make a comparison video and upload it to YouTube. I might also (probably not) get a new stylus for the 44E while looking around for a good used SL-1200. Here's the last recording I made from the Lab-1600. Paul McCartney - Dear Boy (16bit uncompressed 48,000hz): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4yETdJ-P_rFbXBNQTBReEVWNWM/view
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AceTechHD
Active Member
AceTechHD
Active Member
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Angry Possum
Well-Known Member
What mods does your SL1200 have? My setup:
New Tone Arm, Damping Tray, New Platter and Matt , Legs (Feet). Upgraded Audio Cables.
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The M-110 punches well above its weight. You could do a lot worse for the money. The Shure is no great cartridge, although it can be quite a workhorse. I have two old M44 bodies which my grandfather used on his Garrard turntable back in the late 60s/early 70s. They are terrible trackers with the spherical stylus, but they are great to use when playing old 78RPM shellac (I have the 78RPM stylus for it).
cratz2
Addicted Member
Yeah, I meant the possibly very worn stylus as being the $50 tires.
I do agree that regardless of what you do about the table, I'd be thinking about a new stylus or cartridge while you potentially look for a new table.
I bought a used table some years ago that came with a nice AT12Sa, but it was REALLY in need of a new stylus. It was not impressive sounding at all. Not necessarily sibilant, but not full sounding and I was certain there was more detail in there than I was hearing. New stylus and I was good to go.
I will point out that if you are tracking a bit too heavy, that can lead to issues. I'd get a digital scale. Some turntables are in the ballpark but I have one where using the old school method results in the cartridge tracking at almost 2.5 instead of the indicated 2.0.
If I were you, I think I'd lean towards getting the Nagaoka now (great choice, by the way) and see how that works for you then, as mentioned, keep an eye out for whatever used table comes along. Hopefully the cartridge improves your issues.
Angry Possum
Well-Known Member
I definitely would change the cart and stylus first. My first TT i used prior to my sl1200 is a technics slqd 33 w a pmount. I found an RXT5 cart and stylus for it very cheap, after the tire change, the TT sounds amazing. I still have it today as a backup. Yep so changing the tires is a good idea... PS I have a thread out there "Carts for under 50$. U may wanna take a gander at it. Some great advice.
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/carts-w-stylus-under-50-00.786133/
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/carts-w-stylus-under-50-00.786133/
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Angry Possum
Well-Known Member
What mods does your SL1200 have? My setup:
Nice TT by the way.
AceTechHD
Active Member
Eh I don't think it's a bad TT (obviously a cheap knockoff of your SL-1200). It does have a few redeeming qualities; the platter is incredibly thick, the motor is dead silent, and It also has some pretty damn good feet on the bottom. The only noticeably cheap part of the table is the tonearm (witch is apparently metal, go figure).
From the ADJ site: ("American Audio’s VTD-1000 turntable is durable and user-friendly, offering such features as a metal tone arm with adjustable anti-skating, large-platter Start/Stop button, 45 adapter for 7-inch records, tone arm holder with lock, tone arm height lock, and adjustable feet for leveling.").
We'll see if it is truly any good when I get that NAGAOKA MP-110 cart. Don't plan on it being my main table for too long, that's for sure.
Angry Possum
Well-Known Member
You never know. Dont doubt ur TT. My SL QD 33 is still a great player esp with that RXT5 cart and EV stylus upgrade for about 35 bucks total. It kicks ass. The only reason why I'm using a SL 1200 is I got it very cheap from my brother in law for 500 bucks. In mint cond. It needed a dustcover. So i bought a brand new sl 1200 original dustcover from a dealer on ebay for 89 bucks delivered. He's from the Netherlands I believe.
Angry Possum
Well-Known Member
What mods does your SL1200 have? My setup:
I noticed in this photo that you have set your cartridge back on the headshell. Not sure if it makes a difference as I'm a newbie as well. But u may want to consider to do a cartridge alignment as well. Many on this forum can guide you. As I cannot sorry. My cartridge is usually set towards the end of the headshell. I may be doing it wrong as well. Lol
AceTechHD
Active Member
My cartridge is aligned properly (my issue is likely just a worn stylus). I used a strvenson's protractor (can be downloaded and printed). If you're interested look up "turntable cartridge alignment" on YouTube. There's a few good tutorials that will guide you through the process.
Freddymac2
Super Member
I have no experience with your TT or arm, but that cart looks like it is set further back than normal. A small error makes a big difference in miss tracking.
virak
Save the vinyl!
I'd look for a used SL-1800Mk2, SL-1700Mk2 or SL-1600Mk2.
They are all suspended versions of the SL-1200Mk2 (same motor, platter and arm), but often available at a much lower price.
SL-1800Mk2: Manual version. Not much to say here, it's a suspended SL-1200Mk2.
SL-1700Mk2: Semi-automatic. Can often be found cheap due to non-functional automation (it's a perished rubber belt, cost next to nothing to fix).
These seem to be the most bang for buck of the lot. For some reason they don't come with a manual armlift.
SL-1600Mk2: Full auto. Has the same failing rubber belt as the SL-1700Mk2. No unoriginal platter mats for this one, due to the prisms in the platter.
They can all be upgraded with most of the mods for the SL-1200Mk2, except for Isonoe feet and such. Most spare parts are easy to source, too.
As a deck for purely listening, the suspended versions also have a slight edge over the SL-1200Mk2. They sound a little more open and airy (IMO).
They are all suspended versions of the SL-1200Mk2 (same motor, platter and arm), but often available at a much lower price.
SL-1800Mk2: Manual version. Not much to say here, it's a suspended SL-1200Mk2.
SL-1700Mk2: Semi-automatic. Can often be found cheap due to non-functional automation (it's a perished rubber belt, cost next to nothing to fix).
These seem to be the most bang for buck of the lot. For some reason they don't come with a manual armlift.
SL-1600Mk2: Full auto. Has the same failing rubber belt as the SL-1700Mk2. No unoriginal platter mats for this one, due to the prisms in the platter.
They can all be upgraded with most of the mods for the SL-1200Mk2, except for Isonoe feet and such. Most spare parts are easy to source, too.
As a deck for purely listening, the suspended versions also have a slight edge over the SL-1200Mk2. They sound a little more open and airy (IMO).
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AceTechHD
Active Member
The goal (to my understanding) when attempting to align the cartridge is to insure the stylus properly tracks the groves. The only way I could properly line my cartridge for it to be as close as possible to aligned, was for it to be pretty far back. How far back the cartridge is positioned shouldn't adversely effect playback quality if the cartridge and stylus are indeed aligned (mine 100% is and it took me over an hour to accomplish). If anyone thinks moving the 44E up farther will fix the distortion I will move it, but I highly doubt it will make a difference in the slightest. In fact it might sound even worse than it does now.
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AceTechHD
Active Member
I'm going to say goodbye to belt drive for the time being (unless someone wants to sell me an LP12 for $500). That being said the SL-1800Mk2 has my interest peaked. Thanks for the write up!
AceTechHD
Active Member
Today for the first time I heard the true sound of the Sure M44E, and I have to say it's definitely not as bad as I once thought. I decided to do a little experiment and play all of my very best looking records until I find one that does't sound like a distorted mess. Didn't think I'd succeed but I'm happy to say I think I did. Now I've compiled a number of photos and audio samples for all to partake in. No noise reduction was used in this comparison whatsoever. Tracks were only normalized to 0db. M44E is tracking at 1.75g on both tracks, and yes the stylus was cleaned in between plays. Without further adieu here's the very best recording I've ever made with my current setup (ADJ VTD-1000, Sure M44E, Onkyo TX-DS494 AV Receiver).
Andy Williams - Happy Heart - 48,000hz uncompressed:
Notice how little surface noise is visible. good highs with a deep punchy bass. Simply incredible!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFWkxXdmR5SXB0SHM
Now here is an example of what a track normally sounds like on my M44E.
Barbra Streisand - Guilty - 48,000hz uncompressed:
This one is complete with sibiliance, distortion, and obscene surface noise (the record is in mint condition). Only 2 words for this one: distorted mess.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFWERaWnEyRUl0WVE
My verdict for the M44E (distortion aside) is while it's a pretty decent cart, it fails to provide the wide stereo separation and full sound of a better cartridge.
Thanks for listening. Enjoy your weekend!
Andy Williams - Happy Heart - 48,000hz uncompressed:
Notice how little surface noise is visible. good highs with a deep punchy bass. Simply incredible!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFWkxXdmR5SXB0SHM
Now here is an example of what a track normally sounds like on my M44E.
Barbra Streisand - Guilty - 48,000hz uncompressed:
This one is complete with sibiliance, distortion, and obscene surface noise (the record is in mint condition). Only 2 words for this one: distorted mess.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFWERaWnEyRUl0WVE
My verdict for the M44E (distortion aside) is while it's a pretty decent cart, it fails to provide the wide stereo separation and full sound of a better cartridge.
Thanks for listening. Enjoy your weekend!
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malden
Lunatic Member
How, exactly, did you come to this conclusion?