Should I upgrade my table or replace it?
- Thread starter AceTechHD
- Start date
Angry Possum
Well-Known Member
Sounds good to me....
AceTechHD
Active Member
The cart picks and chooses when to sound good and when to sound like a distorted mess.
Recently converted from a vintage Pioneer BD to a Technics SL-1800Mk1, and put a 2M Blue on it. While I do kind of miss the semi-auto feature, it's one less thing to go wrong, and the sound quality is a big step up. It holds a steady speed (according to the strobe), the tone-arm gets a LOT out of the cartridge, and the suspension works. It's smooth, and it's quiet. No, it isn't quartz-locked, but I'm of the opinion that if you're listening for timing errors or pitch instabilities, you're not really listening to the music. I am just as guilty of 'listening to the gear' as anyone, and maybe more so than many. But I consider the SL-1800 to be my first serious table. It's actually BETTER, not just different. It makes it easier to just listen to the music again.
OP, should you upgrade to the Technics, you might not notice as much difference as I did. You won't be gaining as much technical difference, but will be gaining technical refinement. Replacing one SL-1200-ish product with another SL-1200-ish product would generally be considered a lateral move, unless the new one was noticeably better quality. In my estimation, vintage Technics will likely be noticeably better than any modern clone. In my case it was well worth it.
OP, should you upgrade to the Technics, you might not notice as much difference as I did. You won't be gaining as much technical difference, but will be gaining technical refinement. Replacing one SL-1200-ish product with another SL-1200-ish product would generally be considered a lateral move, unless the new one was noticeably better quality. In my estimation, vintage Technics will likely be noticeably better than any modern clone. In my case it was well worth it.
twiiii
Lunatic Member
How important is your record collection? What its value on the market. To get equal performance today from my TT would be close to $6000.00 and It continues to grow. So I don't feel uncomfortable that I have $1000 dollars invested in my TT with tone arm and cartridge in 70's and 2000's dollars. To equal the performance in todays money would be about $6000.00 and that I would prefer to invest in more LP's.
If I were rich I could easily invest $15,000 in a turn table. But don't you think I should have at least $150,000 in LPs to justify that investment?
If I were rich I could easily invest $15,000 in a turn table. But don't you think I should have at least $150,000 in LPs to justify that investment?
Van_Isle
Super Member
If you go SL-1800 or SL-1800 Mk2 ... put a critical eye on them too. Many were pressed into DJ service as well as the SL-1200s.
However, my SL-1210 Mk2 was 'rescued' as one of a pair that the owner had done some DJing with. He certainly had no clue as to how to store them, with one stacked on top of the other. So the one I'm using now had a broken tonearm. Other than the tonearm I've had zero issues with this turntable. Cleaning up and selling the 1st one netted me enough to cover the costs to fix up the 2nd.
However, my SL-1210 Mk2 was 'rescued' as one of a pair that the owner had done some DJing with. He certainly had no clue as to how to store them, with one stacked on top of the other. So the one I'm using now had a broken tonearm. Other than the tonearm I've had zero issues with this turntable. Cleaning up and selling the 1st one netted me enough to cover the costs to fix up the 2nd.
AceTechHD
Active Member
I now have a brand new elliptical stylus for the Shure M44E. Now did it fix the issues I was having? Well yes and no. First of all the volume output of the actual cartridge is now slightly lower. Tracks played with the new stylus are now much more balanced and less harsh and overbearing as before. After reading that you must think the distortion must be completely gone right? Well not exactly... it turns out the distortion is just less harsh, but it's very much still prevalent. I have to say though after playing many of my LP's with the new stylus I really like the sound of the M44E. It seems the cartridge really likes classic rock, Jazz, and old school pop. The cart simply despises any new age pop such as Michel Jackson or Joe Jackson. It's not that you cant enjoy new age pop but be prepared for some major distortion.
Overall my verdict mostly remains the same, but I must say the stereo separation is much better than I previously thought. If all you listen to is classic rock, Jazz, and old school pop then you should definitely get yourself an M44E as a backup cart. Enjoy the attached recordings all taken from the M44E w brand new stylus.
Andy Williams - Happy Heart - 48,000hz uncompressed:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFb1hKQ24tbVZRZzg
Earl Klugh - I'll See You Again - 48,000hz uncompressed:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFU0Y3TEMwNUtKaWM
Al Martino - Goin' Out Of My Head - 48,000hz uncompressed:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFYllOQkhfX0FsMms
Barbra Streisand - Guilty - 48,000hz uncompressed: (Distortion can still be heard)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFa25RbzZCUExWT28
Overall my verdict mostly remains the same, but I must say the stereo separation is much better than I previously thought. If all you listen to is classic rock, Jazz, and old school pop then you should definitely get yourself an M44E as a backup cart. Enjoy the attached recordings all taken from the M44E w brand new stylus.
Andy Williams - Happy Heart - 48,000hz uncompressed:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFb1hKQ24tbVZRZzg
Earl Klugh - I'll See You Again - 48,000hz uncompressed:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFU0Y3TEMwNUtKaWM
Al Martino - Goin' Out Of My Head - 48,000hz uncompressed:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFYllOQkhfX0FsMms
Barbra Streisand - Guilty - 48,000hz uncompressed: (Distortion can still be heard)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yETdJ-P_rFa25RbzZCUExWT28
Last edited:
malden
Lunatic Member
@AceTechHD , what tracking force is the tone-arm set at?
AceTechHD
Active Member
2.0g is what the brand new elliptical stylus is recommending.
malden
Lunatic Member
Did you get it from Andy Deals?
AceTechHD
Active Member
I got it from my local record shop.
malden
Lunatic Member
I'm not surprised that you are still having problems with distortion. The Shure (not Sure) M44E should not exhibit any distortion unless it is mounted in a poor quality turntable or it is saddled by a poor quality stylus. In your case, both issues are present.
Also, the Shure M44E does not discriminate against musical genres. It's easy to jump to conclusions but there are many variables involved in the playback of records.
I'm not suggesting you build your system around a cartridge, but the Shure M44E deserves a better stylus and better turntable.
AceTechHD
Active Member
Are you suggesting the Shure (excuse my prior typo) M44E sounds better than even the audio samples i've provided? Obviously a better turntable would do wonders but I find it a tad hard to believe that a better stylus would eliminate all distortion. The stylus I purchased certainty wasn't expensive but it wasn't cheap either at $24.99 (more than half of my current table's cost). I'm curious though, what stylus would you recommend?
malden
Lunatic Member
There should be absolutely no distortion, period.
This is more than likely the same stylus as the one you bought...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEEDLE-SHUR...550067?hash=item56a05bacf3:g:Ul8AAOSwUaJZoeqd
https://www.jico-stylus.com/product...cts_id=1012&osCsid=mvrmharth19n2d4bif9ejl40d7
malden
Lunatic Member
AceTechHD
Active Member
56 bones huh. While I certainly don't mind spending that much I think it would make a little more sense putting the same 56 bones toward a Technics SL 1200 or SL 1800, While 25 bones was a no brainier. Do you have any uncompressed audio samples from that stylus? I'm just curious how much of a difference it really would make.
malden
Lunatic Member
I think a better turntable will result in a huge improvement. Start there and when more funds are available, upgrade the stylus or invest in a new cartridge altogether.
AceTechHD
Active Member
I also want to point toward this video featuring a Shure M44E with a JICO stylus (looks a little different than the one you linked). At around 8:47 distortion can be heard (use headphones). Seems the uploader is using a Technics SL-1600mkI. Could be a coincidence but I honestly doubt it.
Van_Isle
Super Member
I wouldn't really call Joe Jackson 'pop' ..... but some of the mid to late '80s pressings can be pretty crappy.
The first SL-1210Mk2 I had I sold with a m44 on it ... but I had bought the lighter-tracking n55e stylus for it. It was a nice sounding combo.
AceTechHD
Active Member
The Joe Jackson album i'm referring to is Night & Day, and that album is labeled under the genre New Wave, Pop.