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Show Us Your Sonys!!!

If anyone would know, it would be you Axel :)

Indeed I find also that they are hard to capture on photo... but hard or not, where's those pics Mirko ? :D

Got a CDP-X555ES today for my bedroom setup, and I have my eye on a TA-5650 VFET... hmmm I think that would make a nice match.

Now next it to get that PS-X800...

Glenn: good luck on cleaning the N77, love those meters... I'll be expecting some nice pics of those meters in action ;)
 

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In regard to the TAE77es/esd differences, I have them both here. To be honest, the 77es is a stripped down esd, albeit only slightly so. The TAE77es is not a more serious audio only machine. There are however some important differences in the units. These being obviously the presence or absence of the D./A converter which resides in a copper box underneath the main pcb in the space cutout in the gibraltar chassis. The tape out has a digital option, there are three digital inputs including a digital monitor tape loop and the SVHS switching. There is about 500grams difference in the weight. Both units exhibit similar performance. The ESD has several differences in front end filters and changes to RC filters, one presumes to prevent RF getting in from the digital board. Also the US and EU versions have some changes to the phono front end RC filters- interesting. Specs remain identical for both models. The dissapointing thing about these preamps is the high levels of residual noise, not hum guys, noise. I have three E77es s and 1 E77esd and they are all poor performers when it comes to hiss. I believe it is due to the very basic line stage- Sony could have done much better and I am going to explore a complete modification of one as an experiment. Not only that, the TAE77es had a production flaw resulting in low level hum on all the AU delivered units I have seen. I have just compared my E77 s to an Accuphase C11 and let me tell you, much as I love the big ES gear, the sony paled in comparision.
 
By the way, the nice big toroid you can see in the TAE77es preamp.......isn't. It's an EI conventional transformer potted in resin in a ROUND can! Cheeky Sony huh?
 

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here it is

Ok, here is the fix for all the production E77es units I have seen. They were all AU delivered with the 300xxx serial number.
Dismantling the unit is a long process if you want to do it properly and without damage. Allow two hours from start to finish.
The top, sides and rear panels all must be removed, along with the entire video board. The transformer must be unscrewed and all the wire ties associated with the power supply board must be released. Take pictures of the bundling and order of the wires and particularly placement of the wires that run past the transformer- place them back exactly where they were or expect noise in your preamp.
The missing link is present in the TAE77esd preamp and listed as present on the ES schematic and pcb layout, but the pick and place machine must have missed it. It ties the two secondary Ov CTs of the transformer together and without it, your preamp WILL hum like a wasp in a jar. I let the AU sony service manager know about this in 1991 and they were amazed they a) didn't know about it, b)hadn't received a service bulletin and c)no one had complained. Anyway, it's a good tip to help with buying a bargain 77 preamp. People think they have a fault and sell them cheap....oh, well, the secret is out now.
 

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restorer-john said:
By the way, the nice big toroid you can see in the TAE77es preamp.......isn't. It's an EI conventional transformer potted in resin in a ROUND can! Cheeky Sony huh?
Click to expand...

That's funny! I was actually reading somewhere that older style EI transformers were actually better for low current devices like a preamp compared to a torroid. Not sure how much truth was in that or not.

Sounds like your fix for the e77es would not apply to my E80ES. Mine definitely doesn't buzz like a jar of wasps. Its probably some marginal caps like Unda Maris suggested. Its not a very frequent problem (yet) anyway.
 
John - Thanks for the info and pictures. Mine doesn't hum that bad, either. I only noticed it when you mentioned it and I did the test of turning the volume up to 3 o'clock with no input. Am wondering if the 'jar of wasps' buzzing isn't a problem with the 240vac models rather than the 100/120vac models? But, I'll definitely be checking mine.
 
Ok, maybe not a jar of wasps, but a hum nonetheless. I am fussy with this gear and any hum on a shorted input is unsatisfactory, after all they quote an S/N of 105dB or so. Trust me, it makes a hell of a difference and the link is meant to be there.
The job is no fun, but worth it in the long run.
As for EI transformers, I have no problem with them, love them, but putting it in a round can??? It's a bit like the TAN77es power amp having provision for 4 x22,000uF caps under the big cover but only putting in two...last minute cost cutting on a premium piece of gear.....:scratch2::scratch2:
 
Hey B2, your serial number is a 300xxx from what I can see. Mine are 300460,300489 and 300496 and they all had the missing link.
On another note, I am investigating the line stage for the noise culprit. I think it must be the dual differential FET input pairs. FETs aren't exactly know for their silence. Interesting that the inputs are DC to the source, but the output has a cap (two in parallel).
 
...keeping in mind all three combos (77ES / 80ES / 90ES) were export-only so there might have been some last minute cost-cutting indeed but also back and forth engineering travels between Japan and Europe, all with deadlines to keep and sometimes different "CE" rules and assorted misdemeanours...
It is possible 8xx xxx, 5xx xxx or 6xx xxx have the missing link in place - or any other "variation" ;-)

the E80ES is as silent as can be: volume at 0dB, ear to the tweeter and not a sound.
 
I would say there are two simple rules:
- Don´t expect TOTL build quality for MOTL gear.
- Don´t expect quality from a product or special version, which was not available in Japan

Based on all I hear from you, I would ask myself:

Why putting big efforts into a TA-E77ES/ESD ? It´s obviously a not very well engineered unit and there are millions of better engineered units out there.

BTW: The TA-F808ES and other ES integrated amps were sold in Germany as Germany exclusive models, which included special EMC countermeasures (to meet the restrictive German EMC standards), which potentially heavily degraded the sound quality of the power amplifier and phono sections. These units were sold like hotcakes and got reference ratings from hifi mags ...
 
I was about to quote that Mirko :)

The TA-E901, when imported, had to be strapped somewhere to meet the German "FTZ". A german mag' test I have at hand points to that mod as the reason for the preamp having lower specs than specified and when compared to the three other preamps tested. The latter, not suprisingly, weren't modded/FTZ-approved !
There's a long way between the manufacturer and the final user...
 
Axel,

you are completely right, I disassembled my TA-E901 yesterday evening (was a massacre, more on that later) and found that somebody (a professional, but likely not a Japanese) put capacitors and inductors on the input and output terminals, which are not noted in the Service Manual.
I also found that somebody else interrupted/shunted some of these parts again later (not very professionally made, was obviously the user ...).

I had the pleasure to audition three different TA-E900´s over the last weeks and found, that the two 110V US models sounded somewhat better than the 220V European (German) model. Could be the same reason ...
 
restorer-john said:
Hey B2, your serial number is a 300xxx from what I can see. Mine are 300460,300489 and 300496 and they all had the missing link. On another note, I am investigating the line stage for the noise culprit. I think it must be the dual differential FET input pairs. FETs aren't exactly know for their silence. Interesting that the inputs are DC to the source, but the output has a cap (two in parallel).
Click to expand...
Serial number on mine is 300162, so appears to be one of the earlier ones. Other than the hum, it is an excellent preamp. May not be an Esprit, but still very nice. And matched with the TA-N77ES is a lovely pair. Those caps are certainly candidates for replacement. Especially if I have it pulled apart. IIRC, Axel has been listening to his TA-E80ES/N80ES for quite some time. :thmbsp:
 
Thought to share with you some results from an interesting test of the TA-8650, came across this magazine by accident when I was looking through a huge pile of some old magazines searching for some car tests.. Interestingly the TA-8650 showed some heavy rise in TIM/DIM distortion above 20 watts,it rose actually well above 1%, while the TA-5650 didn't show this kind of behaviour, staying below 0,3% all the way. I will try to make a scan of the results when I'm at a scanner. Anyhow, i thought it was pretty strange. Weren't vfets supposed to be free from this type of distortion with its tube characteristics?
 
I bought my E80ES new when Sony France was about to shelve the last remnants of the lineup in the summer of 1994. So that makes thirteen years non-stop with that champagne preamp.

The N80ES I got some years later, second hand, black version unfortunately but very cheap.
 
Hello Samppo,

it is a legend, that tube circuits are free of TIM, or that low TIM is a feature of tubes (a single amplification device is almost always TIM free).
It is often the case, that the introduction of no (or better only local) feedback designs means less of that kind of distortion, but this is not limited to tubes.

More recent Audio knowledge says, that TIM (and to some extent also DIM) is an unrealistic figure, because it drives amplifiers into regions, where they never are during music reproduction.

Example: The TA-N901 has no feedback after the output stage, it is developed to be virtually TIM free, but it´s DIM and THD figures are so high, that even an uneducated ear hears, that this is a rather bad sounding amplifier. The TA-N8550 is sonically light years ahead of the TA-N901, even if it´s TIM measurements might be bad.

Nevertheless, I would expect, that at least the power amplifier of the TA-8650 would measure better.

Was this measured through the preamplifiers ?
 
Also, there is a reasonable likelihood that the TA-8650 they tested had something wrong with it. When 'Stereophile' tests the various gear they review they find a fairly high % that have problems. Even some of the multi-$10K pieces of gear. So it would not be unusual for that to be the case back when the TA-8650 was tested.
 
Unda Maris said:
I had the pleasure to audition three different TA-E900´s over the last weeks and found, that the two 110V US models sounded somewhat better than the 220V European (German) model. Could be the same reason ...
Click to expand...

I had a look inside the German TA-E900 and found no obvious differences to the US model, other than the few things before the transformers, as specified in the service manual.

But I found some components that are not original.
1.) the constant current diodes in the voltage regulator.
2.) two of the tantalums in the phono-signal-path.
3.) and two pairs of the trim potis. But these are probably changed by Sony (service?), as these are exactly the same as in the US model.

I have put high res nudies in the gallery
http://www.audiokarma.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=4226&cat=524
http://www.audiokarma.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=4227&cat=524
http://www.audiokarma.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=4229&cat=524
http://www.audiokarma.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=4228&cat=524

I think the slight difference between US and AEP-Model results either from the step down transformer acting as "power conditioner".
Or the switches of your "US" model are simply in better shape (it is known that the North Sea has a healthy climate :D
 
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