Interesting ...
I have some high strand count OFC that improved the high and mid clarity from my tube amp but not at all on either of my SS amps ...YMMV
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Speaker wire update-- Don't use extension cords!
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Interesting ...
I have some high strand count OFC that improved the high and mid clarity from my tube amp but not at all on either of my SS amps ...YMMV
The interesting question is .. Why are cable naysayers so compulsed to read and comment in cable threads ??
I have always heard the differences, which are usually subtle but present ..
The test is easy .. Wire the two different sides with differing wire and listen ..
I choose the one that sounds better ..
I have always heard the differences, which are usually subtle but present ..
The test is easy .. Wire the two different sides with differing wire and listen ..
I choose the one that sounds better ..
I comment because most claims made by cable manufacturers as to why their cables are so awesome are unfounded. Testing with something other than human ears is also easy and not subject to emotion. Many of the companies that make these special wires also make other products like special fuses, power cords, special ground boxes, cable lifters, room acoustic enhancers, cable burn in machines, etc. All of these “audiophile” doo-dads have one thing in common- no measured specs to back up the claims. How did they come up with their designs with no concrete basis? I recall reading a post on a forum regarding cable burn in and the ‘expert’ was chiding a poster because his cable burner design didn’t have high enough voltage. How can he know what the proper voltage is on something that isn’t confirmable, but should be?
Many of them use the term ‘engineered’ in their descriptions. It’s impossible to engineer a new product without testing and modification. When there is a measurement given, it is usually such a slight variation that an audible difference would be impossible to hear, hence the ‘golden ears’ or ‘your system isn’t capable of rendering the difference’ excuses. There is so much fault with the process on top of the astronomical prices that raise major red flags. None have been answered for me and I am certain it has jaded my opinion somewhat, but I can easily be convinced otherwise with real evidence. I recall a Richard Pryor skit where his wife caught him in bed with another woman and he said he wasn’t cheating on her. He asked “who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes”.
Many of them use the term ‘engineered’ in their descriptions. It’s impossible to engineer a new product without testing and modification. When there is a measurement given, it is usually such a slight variation that an audible difference would be impossible to hear, hence the ‘golden ears’ or ‘your system isn’t capable of rendering the difference’ excuses. There is so much fault with the process on top of the astronomical prices that raise major red flags. None have been answered for me and I am certain it has jaded my opinion somewhat, but I can easily be convinced otherwise with real evidence. I recall a Richard Pryor skit where his wife caught him in bed with another woman and he said he wasn’t cheating on her. He asked “who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes”.
I can totally agree with you about Marketing B.S. in just about every product under the sun ..
But if differing wires have differing topologies, metal sources, treatments, and coating materials it's certainly reasonable to presume that they have differing conductance qualities and potentially sonic differences when used for audio gear..
And my ear is the only measuring instrument that counts in my audio system ..
The reasons why are an open question ..
Sept 2007 review of Audio cables based on Walmart extension cords ...
https://6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html
We have members here who have had similar results.
Reminder - Audio Cable discussions are VERY polarizing so they are generally NOT encouraged here.
Be civilized or your post gets deleted.
https://6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html
We have members here who have had similar results.
Reminder - Audio Cable discussions are VERY polarizing so they are generally NOT encouraged here.
Be civilized or your post gets deleted.
That's the way of non-experiential theorist nannies.
You might want to rethink your efforts.
On what seems like a weekly basis I find out about a new (to me at least) cable company.
Good reason to have left the topic in a Cutting Edge thread where it has rested peacefully for years ..
zinda
Member
I had something very strange happen yesterday while testing out the newest big craze device "MiniDSP2x4" (not gonna comment on it here) the idea was to get control over my bass speakers in a electrostat speaker system that I've been messing around with for some time. The 4 panels are old JansZen removed from a model 400 cabinet and paired with an old Jensen 8" woofer and a JBL 8" sub mounted in an old jensen 3030 cabinet. Tweeter removed and hole became the new front port after removing and covering the rear port. The speakers sound unnaturally fantastic running all drivers without any crossover? I've tried a few different drivers and all seemed to work good even the 2 original jensen 8s but wanted to remove the active sub and get levels up on the lower end. I have 3 main amps available 2x CS400 peavey and a samson 170 which is an 85watt per for those who care. Initial set up required a bunch of newly made cables and new runs of high quality black 14ga lamp cord. Tinned ends yada yada... So im struggling with this little box and making sure all the RCA's are going to the proper amp inputs and speaker inputs and I have 1 cable that was premade with crappy bananna jacks that will fall out super easy. So I grabbed this old 12ga "perfect symmetry windings" oxygen free special super wire made by Esoteric Audio with huge jacket covers and directional wiring showing arrows on the jacket as well as plus and minus. I bought a spool from a car stereo shop 20 years ago for a competition system I built and won a trophy, ripped it all out and sold the car hence the long run of wire. I connected it randomly without looking for markings, I used my fluke to determine correct pairing on the ends and put a small piece of shrink tube on each end. Turned on the system and saw that one of my cs400 amps had the clip light starting to light up at medium volumes and the other was fine and the other amp was good as well. Figuring it was some loose wires or maybe it was from the minidsp connections rechecked and still had it. Swapped amp inputs, swapped wires and found that it had something to do with that super awesome wire. Put a new run of lamp cord and all was fine. What the what? Tested the wire with my fluke and saw 0.02 ohms resistance on both leads with no short across the runs. Wire is still shiny and clean you can see through the jacket and it's perfect symmetry windings are gleaming and perfect! I can't say if I had the direction backwards but I can see that I have the positive marked with a black shrink tube! So I may have been incorrectly using that wire not only reversed polarity (I probably disrupted the entire flow of electrons now on top of it all) but I may have been forcing 200 watts backwards through that wire as well! Now tell me that they aren't doing something to wires? This is the truth, it just happened yesterday afternoon so its not like I'm going from old memories I have the cable in my hands as I type. Jacket is perfect with no cuts or stretching. It's heavy duty and unexplainably picky I guess.
I have always been a disbeliever, I'm trying to think back if I ever had any issues with any car installs when I used that wire. I never paid much attention to the direction after the first install and it has been reused in several installs and I'm sure there was some reason I ended up changing out wires at some time to fix a strange problem.
Still skeptical though, I have the wire ready for diagnosis but have no interest in finding the actual scientific results, I mean come on who wants to actually provide any real proof and ruin this debate forever!?! Im not going to be the one to carry that responsibility!
I have always been a disbeliever, I'm trying to think back if I ever had any issues with any car installs when I used that wire. I never paid much attention to the direction after the first install and it has been reused in several installs and I'm sure there was some reason I ended up changing out wires at some time to fix a strange problem.
Still skeptical though, I have the wire ready for diagnosis but have no interest in finding the actual scientific results, I mean come on who wants to actually provide any real proof and ruin this debate forever!?! Im not going to be the one to carry that responsibility!
That doesn’t reinforce the ‘why’ for me at all.
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
I was not saying more cable companies "proves" that wires make a difference, but rather that non believers posting in cable threads have apparently not made a difference.
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A lot of the control cabling I install on USS’s is the same as space cable.
I make all my speaker, interconnect and power cables from left overs
The number of companies selling boutique cables doesn’t convince me that i need to “rethink my efforts”. It’s just as likely that others see the opportunity for easy money producing yet some new variation of wire. In My opinion, it’s even more likely than real engineering taking place.
I edited my post above, not sure if you saw that.
My rethink remark comes from an appearance that non believers posting in cable threads is not saving humanity from the horrors of people exercising their freedom to spend money as they please.
No market (or drastically reduced) would mean fewer cable companies, not more.
Maybe it will make a few rethink when they read about audio products with “quantum tunneling” and “uniform energy fields”. There should be no market for mumbo-jumbo products that distort actual science and confuse customers.
There was a phrase at a place I worked in the 80’s “ Dazzle them with brilliance or baffle them with B.S.” When I see many of the products, I don’t see any brilliance.
GuyNoir
Hallowed State
Some time ago, there was some hype about Belden 9497 wire. It was touted as having been Ken Shindo's favorite wire. It seems that the stuff was practically miraculous! I ordered some 14ga and made cables using cheap crimp-on banana plugs from PE. the results were nothing less than shocking! Treble was audibly rolled off, as was bass. Hmmm...so this is what they mean by "vintage" sound? For whatever reason, I later put some Nakamichi plugs on the wires and the difference was clearly audible. Now, they were virtually indistinguishable from my Star Quad cables. Those banana jacks bust have been made with a copper, wood, and cheese alloy.
jazzmans
Super Member
That's a great price, back when I bought monster OFC it was more then that, and that was the nineties.
If it's malleable as described, It'd make great cable.
bookmarked for future reference, and I'm generally a zip cord user now... Although I did find some really nice 14 guage stuff made for outdoors 12v runs that works great... cerro might be the brand name. It worked really well for sending a run through a inside/outside wall for outdoor speakers.
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