Speaker wires that came with my Magnepan 7s , need ID.

[GD70]

Hey gents,
Really appreciate all the input. I don’t want this to become another great speaker wire debate.
Just curious what they were.
I may try them, just to see if I can really hear a sonic difference.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Just curious what they were

And I’m just curious what the individual strands are wrt size. The pics show 2 big strands, 2 small strands, 2 a bit bigger and 1 medium strand for a total of 7 in each insulated conductor, 4 conductors making up one side of the each speaker wire.

Maybe you could straighten the loose ends and get a pic that shows strand size differences.

 

[GD70]

And I’m just curious what the individual strands are wrt size. The pics show 2 big strands, 2 small strands, 2 a bit bigger and 1 medium strand for a total of 7 in each insulated conductor, 4 conductors making up one side of the each speaker wire.

Maybe you could straighten the loose ends and get a pic that shows strand size differences.

I’ll do that later today.

 

[GordonW]

I've used Kimber 8TCs with a Citation 16, a Citation 22 and Kenwood L-09Ms at one time or another and with different speakers, and never encountered any problems.

Later HK Citation amps were basically unconditionally stable with huge SOA in terms of current output. They could drive pretty much anything, without much complaint.

I wouldn't recommend hooking a significant cap-only load to a late Citation amp- but it would probably just shrug it off, under most conditions.

I will say this- by comparison, the Marantz 140 I had, was an UNRESTORED amp, that was probably close to 25 years old, maybe slightly more, when I had it. It realistically could have had aging caps and such in it, that could have made it out-of-spec enough to still basically function- but be much closer to instability than it might have been, new. It's not a super-beefy amp under any conditions, so anything that hamstrung it even a bit, could have been a significant contributing factor in what I observed.

That said- I am wiling to hedge that MANY other people here, are ALSO using unrestored vintage SS amps- and COULD run into the same stability issues more readily, than if their amps were new or had been restored to like-new condition, functionally. It's a factor to consider, if such problems arise!

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[GordonW]

Oh, and as for the OP in the thread- after reading the bulk of the comments in this thread, and for the sake of my own memory- I just verified by looking it up- and Magnepan speakers, including the 7s, tend to be an ALMOST PURELY RESISTIVE load, in terms of what an amp sees. There's no big phase or magnitude swings anywhere in the impedance curve, throughout the audio band. So, that would actually tend to make instability LESS likely- because there would be no significant contribution to such, from the speaker itself, as opposed to other designs. By comparison, cone-based systems have impedance peaks and dips due to inductance of drivers, and crossover transfer functions- and even worse, electrostatic speakers at AS CAPACITORS, more or less- going from very high impedance at low frequencies, to very LOW impedance at high frequencies. However- that's NOT going to be an issue with Magnepans. Now, a purely resistive load is a relatively HEAVY load in practice, compared to the impedance peaks of cone-driver speakers- the amp REALLY needs to be able to drive 4 ohms or so, without histrionics- but if that condition is met, stability shouldn't really be a significant issue. It probably would take one heck of a capacitive cable to cause any sort of issues with a Magnepan, if the amp is capable of driving the otherwise resistive load anyway.

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[GD70]

Oh, and as for the OP in the thread- after reading the bulk of the comments in this thread, and for the sake of my own memory- I just verified by looking it up- and Magnepan speakers, including the 7s, tend to be an ALMOST PURELY RESISTIVE load, in terms of what an amp sees. There's no big phase or magnitude swings anywhere in the impedance curve, throughout the audio band. So, that would actually tend to make instability LESS likely- because there would be no significant contribution to such, from the speaker itself, as opposed to other designs. By comparison, cone-based systems have impedance peaks and dips due to inductance of drivers, and crossover transfer functions- and even worse, electrostatic speakers at AS CAPACITORS, more or less- going from very high impedance at low frequencies, to very LOW impedance at high frequencies. However- that's NOT going to be an issue with Magnepans. Now, a purely resistive load is a relatively HEAVY load in practice, compared to the impedance peaks of cone-driver speakers- the amp REALLY needs to be able to drive 4 ohms or so, without histrionics- but if that condition is met, stability shouldn't really be a significant issue. It probably would take one heck of a capacitive cable to cause any sort of issues with a Magnepan, if the amp is capable of driving the otherwise resistive load anyway.

Regards,
Gordon.

Thanks for this. The power amp in my ONKYO Grand Integra M-508, a completely rebuilt unit.

 

[SaturationPt]

Thanks for this. The power amp in my ONKYO Grand Integra M-508, a completely rebuilt unit.

I’ve always considered that to be one of the best looking amplifiers ever built, have never heard one but based on my A-7’s build and sound I’m confident it is as good to listen to as it is great looking.

 

[GD70]

I’ve always considered that to be one of the best looking amplifiers ever built, have never heard one but based on my A-7’s build and sound I’m confident it is as good to listen to as it is great looking.

Thanks and agree! This replaced on of my JVC Labratory M-7050 amps that blew and doesn’t come out of protection. It had been repaired several times, and my tech said the burnt board and components are almost umobtanium, so the Onkyo came into the picture. This one was completely rebuilt, came from Nebraska shipped to me in NY. Gobs of power and hi current.

 

[Watthour]

Moving back to the initial conversation about speaker/load wire and cable, I am often entertained by the theoretical conversations about wire with no measurable elements. At least, thankfully, someone has looked at the capacitance and inductance of some of the wire types discussed, but without mentioning the frequency ranges at which those were measured.

It is still a little humorous seeing some of the discussions with no reference to actual situations relevant to the application. For those who get out of the house a little more frequently, there are literally hundreds of thousands (more likely, millions) of actual daily use applications operating at varying frequencies from 18Hz to 12+ KHz (right in the typical audio range) but running literally hundreds of kilowatts, with a LOT longer lead lengths in electrically dirtier environments, and a LOT of relevant data has been garnered from that.

Any 2HP or larger commercial or industrial motor operating on a PWM VFD will experience exactly the same phenomenon, through the aforementioned frequencies, and at 1,500 watts (2HP) or much, much more. 24 hours a day, 365¼ days a year. A typical VFD with noise reduction and torque monitoring will output a variable carrier wave from 1,000 Hz. up to and beyond 12-16 KHz, with an RMS element between 6-100 (or more) Hz. Even in that arena. "special" cable is relative. If anyone doubts that the electrical engineers employed to design, service, and operate these potentially millions of installations is not concerned about harmonics, reflected waves, distortion, and the resultant losses and potential damage to a motor which might cost as much at 100 pairs of "high-end" speakers, those people might consider broadening horizons just a wee bit. It might come in handy at railroad crossings, etc. A little look into that world could provide some valuable educational information for anyone concerned about 20 feet of wire driving an occasional 1/10 of a kW.

 

[Roadrash]

Thanks for this. The power amp in my ONKYO Grand Integra M-508, a completely rebuilt unit.

I'd say you're definitely good for amplification sir.

 

[Pete B]

That Marantz amp is a very old and unusual design, similar to the 240/250 that several people
have repaired only for it to fail again. The 500 based on a quick look is a much better design.
I own a broken 250, have not restored it, and believe, based on the schematics, that stability
was based on a prayer. One channel blew due to a shorted output, it has "protection", was
repaired and failed again. Many people report repairs that failed again within a year or so.

 

[krautmaster]

I’ve always considered that to be one of the best looking amplifiers ever built, have never heard one but based on my A-7’s build and sound I’m confident it is as good to listen to as it is great looking.

My M-508 turned 40 years old this month (I bought it new in Sept 1986). It is on it's third set of main filter caps as I used it to play my Infinity RS4b speakers which I bought at the same time, the problem stems from the fact that the RS4b drop down to 1.5 ohms and when played too loud they would send the M508 into protection. I now use Monitor Audio Silver 100 7G speakers with it (min 3.6 ohms) and it sounds marvelous.

 

[skinnypuppy]

My M-508 turned 40 years old this month (I bought it new in Sept 1986). It is on it's third set of main filter caps as I used it to play my Infinity RS4b speakers which I bought at the same time, the problem stems from the fact that the RS4b drop down to 1.5 ohms and when played too loud they would send the M508 into protection. I now use Monitor Audio Silver 100 7G speakers with it (min 3.6 ohms) and it sounds marvelous.

View attachment 3835886

Nice amp and tuner

 

[krautmaster]

Nice amp and tuner

Thanks, the tuner is the Onkyo 9090II and I still have the remote control for it. I need to recap the power supply, it takes a minute or two to power up now.