Special turntable mats? Improvement?
- Thread starter Azimuth
- Start date
zenith2134
Lunatic Member
Any of y'all seen the new McIntosh TT with a magnetically-lifted platter? Think mag-lev trains. I think it retails for 14k US though :tears:
I use a simple felt mat and keep it clean, and it's enough for me at this point. But, as my turntable inventory betters in quality I will likely invest in a better "tweak-oriented" mat.
I use a simple felt mat and keep it clean, and it's enough for me at this point. But, as my turntable inventory betters in quality I will likely invest in a better "tweak-oriented" mat.
Designdweeb
Super Member
Ron Pilgrim
Well, whadya say, Pilgrim
I've used anti static mats from Discwasher and a company called AM Klein out of Denmark with good results but I can honestly say that the best mat I have used is called Sonic Bliss that not only sucks away static like a Hoover, the design of the material with its honeycomb pattern helps dissippate unwanted vibrations providing a much cleaner sound. I started a thread on this mat some time ago which was basically scoffed at because the mat apparently ressembled shelf material from Sears for tool box drawers. After several hours of auditioning with and without, I can state without a doubt that this mat is definately not shelf paper and really does provide a noticeable improvement in sound quality. For 25$ inc. shipping, what a deal. I will post a pic later as it is on my work computer.
Enthusiastically endorsed. This mat was the best tweek I ever did to my elderly AR "The Legend" turntable, which likewise has a (ringing) aluminum platter. But it has no effect whatsoever on the performance of my new Michell Gyro SE (acrylic platter) and so is surplus to requirements.
I use a Herbie's mat that replaced the stock felt mat on my Music Hall TT. I tried the AQ sorbothane mat and I hated it. My records stuck to the mat and I could not change records without turning the table off first. Fortunately, the AQ mat was lent to me by my local audio dealer, so I wasn't out any money. The Herbie's mat also was much less expensive. It does a great job reducing static.
marc mc
Super Member
I would love to see a pic of that mat. As for the "scoffers" no worries they have always hated mats for some reason. My fascination with turntables and tweeking them goes back to the beginning for me and the scoffers were there as well.
marc mc
thedelihaus
Nocturnal transmissions
That shelf paper/toolbox liner is no good for a mat- the stuff will damage vinyl. So for tweak/do it yourself feinds out there, it's not recommended.
A popular DIY mat is cork shelf liner paper ($9 a roll at Target's house goods section) and a sheet of automotive sound deadener ($9 at AutoZone, etc).
A popular DIY mat is cork shelf liner paper ($9 a roll at Target's house goods section) and a sheet of automotive sound deadener ($9 at AutoZone, etc).
My AT-PL120 came with a felt slip mat and a very resonant ringing platter, a quality unaffected by the slip mat. Before my recent Grooveglide epiphany the slip mat would often come off the platter with the recently played LP which was obviously a static issue. I made a turntable mat from a 12 x 12 inch cork square from the local crafts store which takes care of the static issue even from my as yet untreated LPs. It also dampens the ringing of the aluminum platter taking it's natural bell-like metallic-icity down to a dull thud. I've gotten used to the cork look on the platter, so it stays.
Mr. Record
Member
Telarc's cow rocks!
McIntosh has a new table for 14K? I just looked at their site and the table I see is the same ugly piece I saw at CES in January '09. I happen to admire Mac, but they could have done a little bit more with its looks. The thing looks like a Clear Audio table (No doubt it is!) planted on top of a preamp. It's not cheap, but I don't think it's 14K either. BTW, they give you specks on the MC cart, but I they don't seem to think that their customers want to take a look at it. It's an OEM and probably from from Miyabi or Excel.
I think it's important to learn how things work. It helps you to apply logic when setting up or tweaking your system. I've met too many audiophiles who just don't get it and should find another hobby. On the other hand, you can often let logic and understanding get in the way of your hearing. For example, there is no logical reason for power cords sounding different, but they do.
My ex-roommate has the new Clear Audio/Marantz table. It comes with a Souther/Clear Audio clamp, and it's a not a bad table for the money. (My dinosaur Luxman sounds better, but it would sell for a lot more money if it were made today.) For reasons that I'd rather not loose any sleep over, the table sounded better when used w/o the clamp. My mind tells me that an LP sitting on an acrylic platter needs a clamp, but my ears told me different. Frankly speaking, the dynamics weren't any better with or w/o the clamp, but the decay was clearly more real w/o the clamp. LPs like the old Telarc 1812 are fun for some and it's been a tracking challenge since the day it arrived, but I've never been able to find any correlation between tracking that Lp and correct sound and the decay on this recording is a complete mess! In most respects its nothoing more than a "high end" version of the old Shure test LPs. I've met many an old school audiophile who was proud that his V15-whatever could track level 5 of the "Era 5" LP, but you sure didn't want to hear any music on one of these systems! Also, IMH, very few Telarc recordings sound anything like live music. Yes, they have a wide dynamic range, but they are typically dull at the very top, smeared and thick in the middle, and excessively bass heavy. (+5 @ 100 hertz is typical) Despite the hiss level, the old 1812 by Dorati on Mercury sounds way more like a real orchestra. (The CD is mighty fine!) For one thing, it actually images. The Telarc has no imaging. Its just a big fat blob of sludge! Oh yeah, I know the argument that live orchestras don't image either, but an orchestra picked up by mics and played through speakers does.
BTW, does anybody know what a vintage cannon sounds like? I know I don't and I doubt that Telarc's recording sounds much like one either. The same goes for helicopters chasing motorcycles and planets blowing up, but we've all seen and heard it happen in the movie theater. Some people go to great lengths to "reproduce" these things in their homes!
Telarc did record the best sounding cow I ever heard on the "Roundup" CD, and yes I've heard live cows before!
McIntosh has a new table for 14K? I just looked at their site and the table I see is the same ugly piece I saw at CES in January '09. I happen to admire Mac, but they could have done a little bit more with its looks. The thing looks like a Clear Audio table (No doubt it is!) planted on top of a preamp. It's not cheap, but I don't think it's 14K either. BTW, they give you specks on the MC cart, but I they don't seem to think that their customers want to take a look at it. It's an OEM and probably from from Miyabi or Excel.
I think it's important to learn how things work. It helps you to apply logic when setting up or tweaking your system. I've met too many audiophiles who just don't get it and should find another hobby. On the other hand, you can often let logic and understanding get in the way of your hearing. For example, there is no logical reason for power cords sounding different, but they do.
My ex-roommate has the new Clear Audio/Marantz table. It comes with a Souther/Clear Audio clamp, and it's a not a bad table for the money. (My dinosaur Luxman sounds better, but it would sell for a lot more money if it were made today.) For reasons that I'd rather not loose any sleep over, the table sounded better when used w/o the clamp. My mind tells me that an LP sitting on an acrylic platter needs a clamp, but my ears told me different. Frankly speaking, the dynamics weren't any better with or w/o the clamp, but the decay was clearly more real w/o the clamp. LPs like the old Telarc 1812 are fun for some and it's been a tracking challenge since the day it arrived, but I've never been able to find any correlation between tracking that Lp and correct sound and the decay on this recording is a complete mess! In most respects its nothoing more than a "high end" version of the old Shure test LPs. I've met many an old school audiophile who was proud that his V15-whatever could track level 5 of the "Era 5" LP, but you sure didn't want to hear any music on one of these systems! Also, IMH, very few Telarc recordings sound anything like live music. Yes, they have a wide dynamic range, but they are typically dull at the very top, smeared and thick in the middle, and excessively bass heavy. (+5 @ 100 hertz is typical) Despite the hiss level, the old 1812 by Dorati on Mercury sounds way more like a real orchestra. (The CD is mighty fine!) For one thing, it actually images. The Telarc has no imaging. Its just a big fat blob of sludge! Oh yeah, I know the argument that live orchestras don't image either, but an orchestra picked up by mics and played through speakers does.
BTW, does anybody know what a vintage cannon sounds like? I know I don't and I doubt that Telarc's recording sounds much like one either. The same goes for helicopters chasing motorcycles and planets blowing up, but we've all seen and heard it happen in the movie theater. Some people go to great lengths to "reproduce" these things in their homes!
Telarc did record the best sounding cow I ever heard on the "Roundup" CD, and yes I've heard live cows before!
ARJohn
Super Member
I used to sell to Ed when he first started out , the original pre amp with the wired remote was featured in a UHF review with pictures of our work on the inards . He was a real nice guy to chat with and we did a lot of work with him the first 2 years or so , helped out our firm a lot back them . He sure did think "outside the box "
So there goes my 15 seconds of fame .
But he told me to cut out the label area of a scrap LP and use that to lift the LP off the platter .I tried it but knew nothing about VTA at the time . I think I still have that little label disc in a my stereo junk drawer ?
marc mc
Super Member
What did you think of the sound? It was Andrew Marshall of Audio Ideas Guide in TO that published an interview with Ed and tried the record centre on his Heybrook TT2 back in the 80's, and it was that article that started it for me. Andrew said that it made a big improvement in dynamics and reduction of surface noise. I think Andrew used it on his table from that point on. Of course the dealers of the day hated the idea and shunned it as nonsence. I mean think of the implications of that! At the time massive overdamped platters and mats were the rave and the machine was making money. But of course they also shunned TT's all together just a few years later with the prospect of CD's "$ greener $" pastures if you catch my drift.
I just can't get over the irony of this discussion after all these years. I bought my first CD player about 6 years ago after holding out as long as I could. I used to visit Arthur Salvatore's store when vinyl was still king and in all the discussions about the end of vinyl and the digital new kid. I don't think any of us ever dreamed of a vinyl renewel! Not even Arthur who stayed with vinyl as one by one every one caved in. Today when I hear about someone discovering vinyl, its like a carpenter saying he just discovered wood. Its a good day indeed.
marc mc
Last edited:
ARJohn
Super Member
Well I was running a Philips 312 at the time and didn't hear any difference so just forgot about it till now !! One weekend I should try it for old time sakes . And I do remember that article now in AIG , maybe it was EM that told me about it ? But UHF ( before it was UHF ), issue 7 or 8 , had the pics of the Meinter pre amp . I have them all in a box somewhere .
Back on topic ... I am using the Sonic Bliss mat and as posted by another I am a believer !! I endorsed it to another AK'er and he was not impressed with it all ? But I have no static issues anymore , the RCM might also have something to do with that . I have to get another one as I am tired of switching it from table to table .
cheers
ARJohn
Super Member
:thmbsp:
marc mc
Super Member
I have a friend that has both his early pre's they are special :thmbsp: The later one some say has one of the finest DAC's ever built.
marc mc
Interesting read, My Pro-Ject RM5 SE has a mat built into it's MDF platter that has stopped the need for other mats. Although the shelf liner mat rinsed in alcohol and then washed and rinsed was the clear winner over cork and felt on my Thorens TD125MkII. FWIW
Regards,
Jim
Regards,
Jim
Ron Pilgrim
Well, whadya say, Pilgrim
You might be right about the Sonic Bliss mat is made from toolbox shelf liner found this website http://www.ttcuk.com/non-slip-tool-box-cabinet-drawer-liner-12-wide-tm11-toolmate-73-p.asp and the material looks a lot like the Sonic Bliss. the product description says it is made from polyester strim and coated with pcb foam. What I would like to know is how will this ruin the vinyl. I have been using this mat for quite some time now and have noticed do degradation in vinyl quality. Can't be any worse than putting wood glue on an LP. Seriously, if there is a risk of damaging chemical reaction, I would like to know. Anyways, see attached pics of the mat and the drawer liner.
Attachments
Ron Pilgrim
Well, whadya say, Pilgrim
Yeah, I agree
Well Pilgrim,
That's what I told you on the other thread.Non-Slip matting.
It sounds good to you?I won't argue with what you hear.
It will damage your records.How do I know?I've used it myself.Unfortunately I have many records which are left with a residue which transferred from the mat.I have not yet tried to clean it off.Please learn from my experience.
I warned you on the other thread that if the mat was made out of the non-slip liner,that it would damage your records.Not to 'scoff',rather to spare you the experience.
This poster on the same thread spoke of a residue.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2741811&postcount=5