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Special turntable mats? Improvement?

theophile said:
Well Pilgrim,

That's what I told you on the other thread.Non-Slip matting.

It sounds good to you?I won't argue with what you hear.

It will damage your records.How do I know?I've used it myself.Unfortunately I have many records which are left with a residue which transferred from the mat.I have not yet tried to clean it off.Please learn from my experience.

I warned you on the other thread that if the mat was made out of the non-slip liner,that it would damage your records.Not to 'scoff',rather to spare you the experience.

This poster on the same thread spoke of a residue.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2741811&postcount=5
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Thanks for the info. I know that you warned me on the other thread, but I have been using it since then and have noticed no residue transfer to the record. The mat itself does not feel like there is a residue on it. I'm sorry, I am not trying 'scoff' at your experience and really do appreciate the warning. Maybe what I have has been treated differently as to leave no residue, I don't know. I habitually inspect every LP under a hanging lamp located above the TT before I play it and have yet to see any residue. Also, I only use a carbon fiber brush and there is no residue build up on it. So, I will continue to use this mat because it does work quite well, but I will keep an eye open for unwanted residue. I would 86 this mat in heartbeat if I thought it was damaging my albums.
 
The problem is the plasticizers used to keep the material soft...it doesn't present much of a problem if you take your record off the stuff immediately...but if you should leave it on accidentally overnight there may be damage...it will not clean off...that's why I don't use the stuff...even after I took and washed it several times...I tested this with a Bette Midler LP that I used for target practice...cleaned it, left it on the washed and well dried toolbox liner material, and left it over night...next day there was a pattern left in the vinyl from the weave of the material....

I've also had the stuff melt lacquer finishes that were left sitting on it...also had plastic items damaged, too...

That's why I wouldn't use it for a turntable mat.
 
I made one from 5mm Acrylic with a recessed label area. I also use a very thin rubber shelving liner underneath it to get correct VTA. I sounds great with a very nice sound stage.:music:
 

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RickB said:
I tested this with a Bette Midler LP that I used for target practice...cleaned it, left it on the washed and well dried toolbox liner material, and left it over night...next day there was a pattern left in the vinyl from the weave of the material....
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I am gonna have to try this with one of my expendable LP's. It's not that i don't believe any of your warnings, I just have to see it for myself.
 
RickB's experience was mine as well. :yes:

I will quite often leave a record on the turntable overnight.I didn't realise it at the time that I was trialling the non-slip mat.However once I noticed it,I found other LPs which I had left sitting on the mat had the residue on them. :tears:
 
Mark B said:
:thmbsp:

I don't have a mat yet, so I'm considering both the heavy copper mat & ring.
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Have you looked at the Boston Audio Mat 2 at all?

It's just one more possibility. :scratch2:

It would work with the outer ring.

The Terminator(that I e-mailed you about) will be my first move(if it can be used with the GT 2000).Obviously the stock dust-cover can never be used with the Terminator.
None of these options will happen(for me)for quite a while.When I'm ready the Source(GT 2000) will be the main focus of my BIG UPGRADE PUSH.

The strategy:
YOP-1.
4 more Clearaudio Magix.
Terminator.
TT Weights Outer Ring.
Outboard power-supply for Moon LP 5.3.

That should pretty much both optimise the performance of the GT 2000,and give me a pretty f'ing good Source component/System Front-End.

The place where the emphasis in a system should be placed(given good quality components further down the system-chain).
 
theophile said:
I'm seriously considering getting their premium heaviest outer record ring.It's not an if,it's just a matter of when. :yes:
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You won't regret it. I suggest you get the Superweight to go with it. I chose both after auditioning a few others because they don't alter the synergy of my deck, a Mission 775 table with 774 arm. Just tightens up the sound - increases dynamics, separation and interestingly - reduces mistracking on vocals and piano.

Incidently, the table is designed to be used w/o a mat.
 
Simply put, mats are band-aids. Most of the older tables need them because they have poorly designed platters. With most today's better hard platters (synthetic or machined metal) mats are not needed. The only modern "mat" that actually works in my opinion is the Ringmat. It did nothing for my Luxman PD300, but it was wonderful on all of the AR and Regas I've tried. VPIs don't need mats.

Keep in mind, at one time the only thing that mattered to turntable designers was low rumble, steadiness, and correct speed. I'm sure the old timers who worked at Shure still think that those are the only important factors in turntable design!
 
Mr. Record said:
Simply put, mats are band-aids. Most of the older tables need them because they have poorly designed platters. With most today's better hard platters (synthetic or machined metal) mats are not needed. The only modern "mat" that actually works in my opinion is the Ringmat. It did nothing for my Luxman PD300, but it was wonderful on all of the AR and Regas I've tried. VPIs don't need mats.

Keep in mind, at one time the only thing that mattered to turntable designers was low rumble, steadiness, and correct speed. I'm sure the old timers who worked at Shure still think that those are the only important factors in turntable design!
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Strange, most of the vintage TT's I look at are all built like tanks, with genuine, old-fashioned pre-plastic-crap metal platters.

What do TT designers aim for today?
 
Tromatic said:
Strange, most of the vintage TT's I look at are all built like tanks, with genuine, old-fashioned pre-plastic-crap metal platters.

What do TT designers aim for today?
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I see your point, but I'd never consider OEM tables from old "stereos" an example of old fashioned design,. I'm referring to the older better tables of the day, like Thorens, Dual, lower line Technics, Sony, Kenwood, etc. Take the rubber mat off any of the better and well respected Kenwood tables, like the old KD500, and flick the platter with your finger. The platter will ring like a bell. Do the same on a VPI, Sota, or Nottingham table and you'll only hear a faint plink. This is not to say that an older Japanese table isn't a good starting place. It's a great place to start, but platter technology has greatly improved to the point where today's better tables do not need aftermarket fixes.
 
Mr. Record said:
I see your point, but I'd never consider OEM tables from old "stereos" an example of old fashioned design,. I'm referring to the older better tables of the day, like Thorens, Dual, lower line Technics, Sony, Kenwood, etc. Take the rubber mat off any of the better and well respected Kenwood tables, like the old KD500, and flick the platter with your finger. The platter will ring like a bell. Do the same on a VPI, Sota, or Nottingham table and you'll only hear a faint plink. This is not to say that an older Japanese table isn't a good starting place. It's a great place to start, but platter technology has greatly improved to the point where today's better tables do not need aftermarket fixes.
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The challange you have is some of the monsters from the 80's had platters that "rang like a bell" but will still take on most current tables. Many of them did not use mats at all. And of course the list is long of tables trying different materials.

Melco3533.jpg



rx1500.jpg


marc mc
 
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Hi Marc,
I'm not sure what tables you're referring too. Your VPI 4 has an extremely dead platter. I tried one a couple of years ago and I thought it had a much lower noise-floor (less grain) than my Luxman PD300. The big Micro in your picture hardly rings either, so what "monsters" are you referring too?

In a world full of $129 "USB" tables, I'm hardly knocking the older Kenwoods! However, I need a little more clarification.
 
Mr. Record said:
I see your point, but I'd never consider OEM tables from old "stereos" an example of old fashioned design,. I'm referring to the older better tables of the day, like Thorens, Dual, lower line Technics, Sony, Kenwood, etc. Take the rubber mat off any of the better and well respected Kenwood tables, like the old KD500, and flick the platter with your finger. The platter will ring like a bell. Do the same on a VPI, Sota, or Nottingham table and you'll only hear a faint plink. This is not to say that an older Japanese table isn't a good starting place. It's a great place to start, but platter technology has greatly improved to the point where today's better tables do not need aftermarket fixes.
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I would not even consider running a 'modern' glass-platter TT without a mat. It may not 'ring like a bell', but it is still subject to any number of vibrations that a good mat can help kill.
 
Tromatic said:
I would not even consider running a 'modern' glass-platter TT without a mat. It may not 'ring like a bell', but it is still subject to any number of vibrations that a good mat can help kill.
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There's no way I'd run a bare glass platter either. I forgot about those Rega glass platters! I'd love to try a Rega in my system.

Back when I was at Cisco Music I sold one of my Rega using customers (Sorry, I don't remember the model) a Ringmat. I had only used it on an AR, but the improvement was so dramatic over the stock felt mat that I was pretty hot on the Ringmat at the time. The customer loved it, so I guess it's a good choice for a glass platter!

If you own a Rega I'd try it. Listen to how much better piano and vocals sound.
 
Mr. Record said:
There's no way I'd run a bare glass platter either. I forgot about those Rega glass platters! I'd love to try a Rega in my system.

Back when I was at Cisco Music I sold one of my Rega using customers (Sorry, I don't remember the model) a Ringmat. I had only used it on an AR, but the improvement was so dramatic over the stock felt mat that I was pretty hot on the Ringmat at the time. The customer loved it, so I guess it's a good choice for a glass platter!

If you own a Rega I'd try it. Listen to how much better piano and vocals sound.
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Try a Herbies TT mat. Not affiliated and all that, but there is none better.
 
After seeing this discussion, I decided to try going matless on glass with my Music Hall MMF-5. Kind of a bright effect, I suppose. I just tried it for one side of one record. A little edgy. Not awful but the felt mat does help.
 
Tromatic said:
Try a Herbies TT mat. Not affiliated and all that, but there is none better.
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I did not like it on a friend's VPI TNT 5. However, we both own EAR 864 preamps and we both run Herbie tube rings on the 2 line stage tubes. I have dampers on the 3 phono tubes as well. The Herbies tube dampers are lovely!

Re. running LPs on a bare Rega glass platter: I'm sure the detail and attack is better. Felt mats stink in those 2 areas. Of course, I don't know what the Herbies would do on a Rega. (I still need to audition a Rega for myslef!), but I do know what a Ringmat does on an AR and a Sota. It offers the sonic benefits of running w/o a mat,. but it seems to also have the right amount of damping to get rid of the glare. Perhaps a Ring-matted Rega is the best value in audio. Wouldn't that be nice?!
 
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