The V15 RS. Is it really a V15 or just a rebadged M97xE?
- Thread starter catman
- Start date
kconnor
Well-Known Member
The electrical specs that Radio Shack and Shure listed for the V15RS and the V15xMR cartridges are the same. This is confirmed to my satisfaction by the inductance vs. frequency measurements I took. Additional but admittedly more uncertain evidence is that the bodies of the V15RS and the V15xMR sans trim pieces are the same including the angle of the connectors. The RXT4 used the M97 body. This similarity was one of the things I noticed when I first got my V15RS. I no longer have the V15xMR otherwise I would take pictures of both cartridges to show that. However, a quick search on Google images will demonstrate to a great degree of certainty that even the form factors are the same.
Same electrical specs and form factor kind of leads to one conclusion. Oh, and both are marked "Mexico".
Same electrical specs and form factor kind of leads to one conclusion. Oh, and both are marked "Mexico".
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NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
Any thoughts on the pole-piece designs? The V15xMR is just about the only Shure that I have never taken apart. If that latest [and greatest] V15-designated model does not have laminated pole pieces, and really does appear to be the same design as the RatShack model, then Shure really went to pot. I have two ML140HE, and they are by far the best Shure had ever made. I would put them up against any V15-type cartridge any day. Made in USA.
hakaplan
Needs professional help
Many would dispute that the V15VxMR was the greatest. I know I had this conversation with you before, but I can't remember what you said. Have you ever compared your ML-140HE directly to a non-x V15VMR (also made in USA)?
Stanton681EEES
Addicted Member
What about putting it up against an Ultra 500 some say that was the best cartridge Shure ever made
Shure!
But the competitors would be:
Ultra 500 (the updated TOTL V15V)
Ultra 400 (the updated TOTL ML140)
Available at the same time, from the same catalogue.... but the V15 derivative was more expensive.
Best possible performance at a lower pricepoint than the V15 was a design goal of the ML140 - which was apparently achieved.
But the competitors would be:
Ultra 500 (the updated TOTL V15V)
Ultra 400 (the updated TOTL ML140)
Available at the same time, from the same catalogue.... but the V15 derivative was more expensive.
Best possible performance at a lower pricepoint than the V15 was a design goal of the ML140 - which was apparently achieved.
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
I have not directly compared the 140 to anything more elaborate than the III or the newer 97. Years ago, I did give the USA Type V a listen, and was not all that impressed, even though I figured that everyone else thought that it was the cat's meow. I have yet to give the newer Mexican unit a good listen.
As far as the 140 goes, I fell in love with it after thirty seconds. Now I own two complete units, plus one spare stylus. I ate the other spare a few months ago. Time to look again on ebay for another spare stylus.
To quote the man in Kaplan's avatar, "Wonderful, wonderful."
As far as the 140 goes, I fell in love with it after thirty seconds. Now I own two complete units, plus one spare stylus. I ate the other spare a few months ago. Time to look again on ebay for another spare stylus.
To quote the man in Kaplan's avatar, "Wonderful, wonderful."
targeteye
Super Member
I have a V and a Vx both with original Shure Styli. Since one is mounted on an arm without a removable headshell I can't really do a quick comparison. All I can say is they both sound very nice as does my SAS equiped IV.
In 1995 the RS was selling at Rat Shack for 49.99. THe Vx was introduced in 1996. At some point List price for the Vx was $325 and I remember paying just over $200 for mine sometime around 2000 from Garage-a-records.
Shure says. "1997: The V15VxMR is introduced with improvements in the stylus design and pole piece design to provide a warmer and more musical sound quality." This must be the rolled off highs compaired to the V that some speak of. Perhaps the RS and Vx are the same poll design, I always thought that the majority of what makes a v15 perform like it does is in the Stylus.
I feel lucky to have a IV,V, and Vx all with excellent original Styli.
Steve
In 1995 the RS was selling at Rat Shack for 49.99. THe Vx was introduced in 1996. At some point List price for the Vx was $325 and I remember paying just over $200 for mine sometime around 2000 from Garage-a-records.
Shure says. "1997: The V15VxMR is introduced with improvements in the stylus design and pole piece design to provide a warmer and more musical sound quality." This must be the rolled off highs compaired to the V that some speak of. Perhaps the RS and Vx are the same poll design, I always thought that the majority of what makes a v15 perform like it does is in the Stylus.
I feel lucky to have a IV,V, and Vx all with excellent original Styli.
Steve
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Yep you are very lucky at that
I am absolutely convinced that the majority of what the V15's are about is in the styli.....
I think all the top cartridges are 80% about their styli - and the remaining 20% is about the best way to take advantage of the strengths and weaknesses of that stylus design...
davidro
Lunatic Member
I note your assessment has decreased by 19% :scratch2:
kconnor
Well-Known Member
I posted some pictures that show the distinct physical similarity between the V15xMR and V15RS bodies. That together with identical published and measured DC resistance and AC inductance specs would lead one to reasonably conclude that the V15RS body teamed with a more sophisticated stylus assembly was conscripted for use as the V15xMR. Curiously, even the published weight of 6.6 grams is the same for each cartridge.
It isn't quite so simple...
The M97HE, M97xe, 1000e, MT75p, V15VMR, V15VP - ALL have the exact same physical body proportions.
(the V15VMR & V15VP have a narrower stylus shank opening)
The electrical parameters vary across these quite substantially.
Physical similarity is unfortunately not an indication (hence my previous question about having inspected the internals...)
The M97HE, M97xe, 1000e, MT75p, V15VMR, V15VP - ALL have the exact same physical body proportions.
(the V15VMR & V15VP have a narrower stylus shank opening)
The electrical parameters vary across these quite substantially.
Physical similarity is unfortunately not an indication (hence my previous question about having inspected the internals...)
kconnor
Well-Known Member
Granted, however the identical electrical characteristics of the V15xMR and V15RS (DC resistance and AC impedance over frequency) in conjuntion with the physical similarity tends to support the fact that the two are the same. I cannot say that the physical orientation of the coils is the same, but if the construction is different the inductance would tend to show a marked divergence as frequency increases and in fact it does not.
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I actually agree with you that they are most likely identical....
I just managed to win a bid (a bit too high but...) on a V15HRP
That, in theory, should be the same body as a V15Vx - and it comes with an intact (I Hope!! - otherwise I've done my cash!) original stylus.
This stylus should be a HyperEliptical on a beryllium cantilever (same cantilever as the V15VxMR, same shank, but no brush) - and I will therefore have the opportunity to plug it into the Me75p, and 1000e to test the theory with regards to whether the magnets are in fact in the right place..... or not.
Either way that should be a lovely bit of cartridge!
bye for now
David
I just managed to win a bid (a bit too high but...) on a V15HRP
That, in theory, should be the same body as a V15Vx - and it comes with an intact (I Hope!! - otherwise I've done my cash!) original stylus.
This stylus should be a HyperEliptical on a beryllium cantilever (same cantilever as the V15VxMR, same shank, but no brush) - and I will therefore have the opportunity to plug it into the Me75p, and 1000e to test the theory with regards to whether the magnets are in fact in the right place..... or not.
Either way that should be a lovely bit of cartridge!
bye for now
David
Balifly
Listening
Congratulations! :thmbsp:
Looking forward to reading your analyzes on it.
I saw the auction and thought that you would be a contender.
In an absolute sense - I probably should have held off - I have a stylussless V15V and V15VP...
But this was coming up to be less than a new stylus for the other ones (they will get their turn in due course) - and it gives me a chance to try out the original Shure stylus... and particularly that cantilever...
And I can try it out in the M family cartridges as well to satisfy my ever hungry curiosity.
I will report in due course - may be a while, as following on from that great motto "nothing succeeds like excess"
- I have gone and extravagantly picked up a whole collection of great classic (mostly MM/MI) cartridges over the last 6 months - and I really am only just starting to listen to them.
But preliminary testing won't take too long (Frequency Response, Mechanical resonance identification, & Square Wave analysis) - and doing that same suite of tests in the V15 and then the M series bodies should be telling.... (I hope) :scratch2:
Proper listening tests will take much much longer
bye for now
David
But this was coming up to be less than a new stylus for the other ones (they will get their turn in due course) - and it gives me a chance to try out the original Shure stylus... and particularly that cantilever...
And I can try it out in the M family cartridges as well to satisfy my ever hungry curiosity.
I will report in due course - may be a while, as following on from that great motto "nothing succeeds like excess"
- I have gone and extravagantly picked up a whole collection of great classic (mostly MM/MI) cartridges over the last 6 months - and I really am only just starting to listen to them. But preliminary testing won't take too long (Frequency Response, Mechanical resonance identification, & Square Wave analysis) - and doing that same suite of tests in the V15 and then the M series bodies should be telling.... (I hope) :scratch2:
Proper listening tests will take much much longer
bye for now
David
nailer
audionerd
Both my V15VMRs were made in Mexico.
hakaplan
Needs professional help
You are absolutely positive they are not the V15VxMR? Could you post a pic or scan of the box or literature?
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
Until you melt away the capsule from the assembly, all this is just guesswork. The only piece visible without dissection is the pole piece tips. Single, un-laminated pole pieces indicate a way-inferior design.
Stanton and Pickering cartridges pulled apart easily for comparison, exposing most of the assembly. But even then, I wonder if any of us could find visible differences in design, which may or may not be apparent in the ultra-high-end Pickerings.
Too bad that there is no one to speak to from either Shure or Stanton/Pickering.
Stanton and Pickering cartridges pulled apart easily for comparison, exposing most of the assembly. But even then, I wonder if any of us could find visible differences in design, which may or may not be apparent in the ultra-high-end Pickerings.
Too bad that there is no one to speak to from either Shure or Stanton/Pickering.