• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

The V15 RS. Is it really a V15 or just a rebadged M97xE?

Don't like the V15RS/VSTIII? Don't buy it. My point was simply that many people believe the VST-III to be contemporaneous with the V15III and a derivative of it, whereas the carts are 15 years apart.
 
Last edited:
wualta said:
Don't like the V15RS/VSTIII? Don't buy it. My point was simply that many people believe the VST-III to be contemporaneous with the V15III and a derivative of it, whereas the carts are 15 years apart.
Click to expand...

( V15RS/VSTIII) Not sure it's the same cart as the V15 VST-V. But the VST-V is the best sounding Shure cart I've heard.
 
Have you measured the Z & R of the VST-V body?

I believe they may be hand picked V15V bodies... with a slightly differing stylus possibly...

The Ultra500 is another V15V derivative...
 
Exactly. If the Gramophone review of the VST-V is accurate, the VST-V came last and may represent Shure's last best thought on the V15V. Some owners claim the VNSE5MR stylus has higher compliance. Don't know about that, but a measurement of body inductance might give us a clue to Shure's postapocalyptic (ie, post-vinyl era) thinking.
 
Last edited:
There is also an extant review of the Ultra500, by a VST-V owner/reviewer, stating that it is another notch further improved... (that one is in the VE library)

All three shared the same styli I believe.... (VN5MR... narrow shank)
 
dlaloum said:
Have you measured the Z & R of the VST-V body?

I believe they may be hand picked V15V bodies... with a slightly differing stylus possibly...

The Ultra500 is another V15V derivative...
Click to expand...

You might ask DaveyW to do that, as it is his cart.

A side note off topic. The pieces I will send you for examination got put back due to a small set back here
 
dlaloum said:
All three shared the same styli I believe.... (VN5MR... narrow shank)
Click to expand...
The VST-V used the VNSE5MR, also narrow shank. What's the/Is there any difference? Dunno.
 
marcmorin said:
You might ask DaveyW to do that, as it is his cart.

A side note off topic. The pieces I will send you for examination got put back due to a small set back here
Click to expand...

Thanks - I will (ask DaveyW)

No hurry with the pieces - I have too much on my plate right now anyway!
 
wualta said:
Don't like the V15RS/VSTIII? Don't buy it. My point was simply that many people believe the VST-III to be contemporaneous with the V15III and a derivative of it, whereas the carts are 15 years apart.
Click to expand...

If your point was to clear up confusion over when the VSTIII and V15III cartridges were made, fine and dandy. But your use of the word "infamously" in reference to Shure's customer help answer is a very harsh charge to make (synonyms include disgraceful, wicked, shocking, vile, base, heinous, villainous). The customer asking the question thought the two were contemporaneous; if he was familiar with the V15III, Shure's answer made it clear that they weren't made at the same time, but without dwelling on or highlighting the customer's misconception--to me that's not infamy, but laudable courtesy.

When asked to compare the VSTIII with the V15 line, Shure's answer makes clear that it was not up to type V, or even type IV, standards, but that it was similar in performance to the older type III. Is that a shocking or heinous comparison? When asked to compare the VSTIII with the M97xE, Shure's answer is that the newer cartridge is an upgrade. My ears tell me they're right, but so often I see the charge leveled, as you and dlaloum have done, that their answer is not honest but a lie told in an attempt to sell current product. Again, it just seems a very harsh characterization. Surely one person can disagree with another on the merits of a product, and give reasons for that disagreement, without resorting to calling the other a liar.
 
jrtrent said:
If your point was to clear up confusion over when the VSTIII and V15III cartridges were made, fine and dandy. But your use of the word "infamously" in reference to Shure's customer help answer is a very harsh charge to make (synonyms include disgraceful, wicked, shocking, vile, base, heinous, villainous). The customer asking the question thought the two were contemporaneous; if he was familiar with the V15III, Shure's answer made it clear that they weren't made at the same time, but without dwelling on or highlighting the customer's misconception--to me that's not infamy, but laudable courtesy.

When asked to compare the VSTIII with the V15 line, Shure's answer makes clear that it was not up to type V, or even type IV, standards, but that it was similar in performance to the older type III. Is that a shocking or heinous comparison? When asked to compare the VSTIII with the M97xE, Shure's answer is that the newer cartridge is an upgrade. My ears tell me they're right, but so often I see the charge leveled, as you and dlaloum have done, that their answer is not honest but a lie told in an attempt to sell current product. Again, it just seems a very harsh characterization. Surely one person can disagree with another on the merits of a product, and give reasons for that disagreement, without resorting to calling the other a liar.
Click to expand...

The only fly in the ointment here, is that the M97HE was the step below the V15III in the Shure range when both were available alongside each other. (and a substantial step down)

When Shure re-vamped the M97HE as the M97xE the cantilever appears to have become heavier (higher effective mass - worse) the needle cruder (went from Hypereliptical... and the Shure HE's were very nice! - to a very nice eliptical - but still a step down) - and production shifted to mexico and has demonstrably had and continues to have quality issues.

The underlying design is in no way different to the M97HE - the resistance/impedance spec of the cartridge is identical, and the inductance specification differs by less than 10% (10% being approximately the manufacturing tolerances on Mass produced MM's) -with 650mH vs 700mH.

If Shure have in some way "upgraded" the M97HE to create the M97xE and in the process eclipse the poor underperforming V15III.... they made a dramatic marketing mess up of it and forgot to tell anyone about it!
Majority concensus is that the M97HE was superior to the current M97xE - and within the Shure range at the time, it was substantially inferior to the V15III and V15IV - in reality the M97HE was supposed to be a budget V15IV - and the M95 was supposed to be the equivalent budget V15III.

What you hear and how you react to that are highly subjective, and hugely prone to psycho-acoustic effects - the only way to compare is to do double blind level matched testing - and when doing so you need each cartridge to be set up and loaded optimally. (ie: differently for each potentially...) - I have experienced variable results with comparisons and will simply say that it is very difficult to compare two cartridge fairly... (my own experiments with level matched listening have shown that getting two very different cartridges level matched to within 0.1db eliminates a huge percentage of the difference between them....)

It is my opinion as a listener, that the M97xE (with SAS stylus) is inferior to the V15VMR (with SAS stylus)... and it is also my belief that the reason for this is related to the laminated core structure. This core structure is also present on the V15III and V15IV (albeit in higher inductance form) - and absent from the V15VxMR, M97HE, and M97xE. (worthy of note is the fact that I make this comparison with the identical stylus type in its respective forms for the two cartridges - as near as you can get to identical stylus given the differing shank format)

My severe skepticism about Shure's response to a customer that the M97xE is an "upgrade" from the VST-III or V15III, is purely due to a complete cognitive dissonance between all the Shure published material dating back to the 60's, and the verbal comment of the customer service agent.

In fact based on the technical material published by Shure (including the white papers on their website) - the customer service agent is wrong.

But then geeks who read all that technical stuff are in the minority.... so there is a high likelihood that the service agent was ignorant - after all their main market today is DJ oriented - and they are unlikely to be hiring people who know the history of the Shure cartridge line to man the phones!

Hey I could be wrong.... maybe its an upgrade - but there has been nothing published by Shure to intimate that this would be the case. - And only the occasional words by a Shure rep....
The Shure documentation do mention that the current nearest equivalent in the Shure range is the M97xE .... which is far from saying that it is an upgrade.

bye for now

David
 
Last edited:
People can decide for themselves. Here's the question and answer (updated in 2008) that I was referring to:
http://www.shure.com/americas/support/find-an-answer/vst-iii-specifications [dead link]
I also invite readers to search my posts for the words "lie" or "liar". Invitations also go out to learn the difference between informal speech and dictionary speech and to use that dictionary to look up the word "civility". Besides, aren't there effective medications for spittle-flecked rage nowadays?
 
Last edited:
I followed the link about replacement styli... and the comment is that the NE97HE is the replacement stylus that will fit the VSTIII.

If that is the case then the VSTIII has a fat shank, and is unlikely to be a laminated core.... which implies that it is NOT related to the V15III at all, but rather is a derivation of the M97 series, or a relative of the V15Vx....

So what I said before is totally invalid.....:scratch2:
 
dlaloum said:
I followed the link about replacement styli... and the comment is that the NE97HE is the replacement stylus that will fit the VSTIII.

If that is the case then the VSTIII has a fat shank, and is unlikely to be a laminated core.... which implies that it is NOT related to the V15III at all, but rather is a derivation of the M97 series, or a relative of the V15Vx....

So what I said before is totally invalid.....:scratch2:
Click to expand...

I don't think so...you're talking about this link, right?
http://shure.custhelp.com/app/answer...7/kw/VST III

I don't see that as talking about which replacement styli to use, but rather replacing the whole VST III cartridge with a M97xE.
 
G'day all, I admit that I've become rather confused by the many 'versions' and iterations of the Shure V15 cartridge.

Would it be possible for someone to compile a definitive list along with important cartridge parameters, characteristics and options. That's asking quite a bit I guess. :yes: Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
The V15 VX is exactly the same as the RS. I have both. The Shure body is painted black. The RS is unpainted.
 
I have a couple of V15RS bodies, they measure the same as the V15Vx specs (I do not have a V15Vx)

The V15RS is effectively a V15Vx as opposed to a V15VxMR (in the same way that the HE version of the V15V was the straight V15V, and the V15VMR added the MicroRidge stylus shape...)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom