What’s your opinions of this Klipsch video?
- Thread starter soundbound
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soundbound
Well-Known Member
Anyone else? Is there any body out there?
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DirtyErnie
Well-Known Member
I can't afford any of their speakers right now, so... meh?
soundbound
Well-Known Member
I just wanted to know others thoughts about the content of it. I don’t learn much from it. I wanted to hear if others do. The two men in the video sound clear and loud, but the speakers sound very muffled with low volume, they sound bad. It seems like it’s mainly two guys with many years of audio experience between them saying mainly just common sense things that you could mostly guess how they’d sound and compare just by looking at them like this speaker sounds wider, taller, imaging and bass differences, etc. I guess I’d appreciate more precise details from them being they’re in the room with them and it would have been better if they had the speakers microphone better.
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Cask05
Active Member
Why ask about this (now 5-year-old) video? Is there something that you think might cause you to make a different choice in your loudspeakers?
- Do you think that the vicarious experience of watching a YT video will give you enough information to make a buying decision (noting the conversion to Opus or AAC lossy codecs)?
- Are the two people involved noted by others for their abilities to hear and describe differences between the acoustic performances of two different corner-horn loudspeaker types?
There are several flaws:
- the lack of using a good stereo pair of microphones that can better capture the sound quality of the loudspeakers in-room, (I recommend a Blumlein pair or ORTF instead of what they used to hear the differences better...noting the problem of YT conversion to lossy format,)
- the music selections do not clearly reveal either loudspeakers' capabilities. Much better music selections could have been chosen.
- The lack of verbal specificity of the differences in the sound image by the two listeners (as you pointed out).
- The distinct disadvantage of placing the Jubilee bass bins out of the room's corners (relative to the Khorns)...and closer together, as shown.
Remember that PWK himself (while in his 90s) could clearly hear the difference between the two loudspeaker models--and he re-christened the developmental "Klipschorn II" to be the new "Jubilee".
I instead recommend hearing each loudspeaker type in person.
Chris
Chad Michael
Dissonant Rhino
1) reflective room, which I am not a fan
2) sub par microphones, which is unfortunate
3) still, I clearly hear a night and day difference from the K Horn to the Jubilee (how could you not??)
Personally would not buy either speaker without hearing them in person (as if I had that kind of money rattling around in my piggy bank)
Still, I enjoyed the video. I might see what other comparisons they may have done.
2) sub par microphones, which is unfortunate
3) still, I clearly hear a night and day difference from the K Horn to the Jubilee (how could you not??)
Personally would not buy either speaker without hearing them in person (as if I had that kind of money rattling around in my piggy bank)
Still, I enjoyed the video. I might see what other comparisons they may have done.
Cask05
Active Member
In late 2007 when I bought my Jubilees, there was no way for me to hear them first. I knew I had to buy them in order to hear them.
I carefully read what they were on the K-forum and how they differed from the prior design (i.e., the Khorn). What I didn't fully understand was how good the K-402 horn actually was. When I received the Jubilees in late December 2007 and set about trying to find a way to bi-amp them to hear them, I knew then that it was going to be a long road to achieve what I wanted out of them. I knew that before buying them and I wasn't deterred. It wasn't until after acquiring a better DSP crossover--the ElectroVoice Dx38 DSP--and a pair of TAD TD-4002s 2" compression drivers that I understood exactly what these loudspeakers were capable of. There was no "stock" configuration at that time; I had to provide my own crossovers and DSP settings (and compression drivers--as it turned out).
The 1st-gen Jubilees in the video had stock K-691s--which have a titanium dome ringing frequency of ~14.9 kHz, a typical DSP crossover setup that induces a 360 degree phase delay of the bass bin relative to the K-402/K-691, and a bass bin centerline to K-402 centerline vertical distance that is much greater than 1/4 wavelength at the 425 Hz (nominal) crossover frequency (a quarter wavelength distance is eight inches).
When I addressed these three areas in my loudspeakers, I was astounded by what I heard. It had only taken me 12 years to get there.
Now, the only loudspeakers that I would consider replacing my modified 1st-gen Jubilees with--would be K-402-MEHs. And not because of Beranek's law, but because they really are that good--both by acoustic measurements and by subjective listening.
I have never bought a pair of loudspeakers after first hearing them.
Chris
Mike Stehr
Poverty Audio
Jubliboom
DirtyErnie
Well-Known Member
I much prefer Sound Sommelier's presentations, if we're listening to speakers on YouTube.
soundbound
Well-Known Member
Cask05
Active Member
By the way, here's a DR Database reported crest factor on the song used for that demo, from the eponymous album from Cigarettes After Sex:
DR Peak RMS Track
DR10 -1.02 dB -12.60 dB 06-Sweet
At least it isn't clipping...but that's not saying much.
______________________________________________________
Here is an equivalent data report on Brothers in Arms (1985 CD version)--a much more often used reference for subjective listening:
Analyzed: Dire Straits / Brothers In Arms
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR20 0.00 dB -21.91 dB 5:12 01-So Far Away
DR19 0.00 dB -21.38 dB 8:26 02-Money For Nothing
DR13 -5.95 dB -21.49 dB 4:13 03-Walk Of Life
DR14 -7.78 dB -24.88 dB 6:34 04-Your Latest Trick
DR13 -12.70 dB -28.90 dB 8:31 05-Why Worry
DR17 -2.43 dB -23.32 dB 6:58 06-Ride Across The River
DR14 -2.18 dB -21.78 dB 4:40 07-The Man's Too Strong
DR18 0.00 dB -20.38 dB 3:41 08-One World
DR15 -4.00 dB -23.49 dB 6:56 09-Brothers In Arms
Number of tracks: 9
Official DR value: DR16
For So Far Away, that's a 10 dB difference in dynamic range relative to the track used in the YouTube video (i.e., crest factor). Virtually any loudspeaker could handle the YT video.
Chris
babadono
Active Member
First video is a comparison of 2 speakers one of which cannot be had. What's the point? I bought UG Jubes in 2018 after hearing them in Hope in a big metal building and then in an owners home in Idaho. I had KHorns at the time which I had owned for 30+ years. The difference in the bass horns has to be heard to be believed. And the K402 horn over the K400/k77 tweeter? Fahgedaboddit.
