What do YOU consider to be the best TT ever built??
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Djcoolray
Addicted Member
If you consider new, that might be true....
But in the realm of top of the line turntables, there are so many that have been forgotten it's kind of hard to distinguish!! So many people over time have been attracted to good turntables based on popularity. But first you have to be able to distinguish what you are listening to, to discern an improvement. Great isn't great until you've had your share of experiences....
But in the realm of top of the line turntables, there are so many that have been forgotten it's kind of hard to distinguish!! So many people over time have been attracted to good turntables based on popularity. But first you have to be able to distinguish what you are listening to, to discern an improvement. Great isn't great until you've had your share of experiences....
nj pheonix
Lunatic Member
^^
Me too
Me too
gusten
Addicted Member
But there might be one that objectively is the best. The problem is to know which one it is.
nj pheonix
Lunatic Member
I suspect you eventually arrive at a certain level of goodness (greatness?) where set up, taste makes the difference very small
(BTW I'm not there)
(BTW I'm not there)
jblnut
Don't Overthink It
If there is , I can flatly guarantee that any random group of audiophiles (like this one) will - never - agree on it. So my statement stands
jblnut
gusten
Addicted Member
If there is , I can flatly guarantee that any random group of audiophiles (like this one) will - never - agree on it. So my statement stands
jblnut
That is why I wrote objectively.
gusten
Addicted Member
I'll demur here.
I've already said that when we get to the level of the best turntables, the fine detail of the set-up is crucial. Don't necessarily think that I mean VTA,VTF, overhang. That is cartridge set-up. I truly mean turntable set up.
If two people are comparing their impressions of the same State Of The Art turntable, the requirement is that they have set the turntable up exactly the same. This is how a comparison needs to be made. If there is a discrepancy in the turntable set-up, they won't be comparing like to like. If the turntable is set up differently and everything else is the same, effectively they will be listening to two different turntables. Same arm. Same cartridge. Even same system and room down to the finest detail. Because the turntable is the Source Component, what takes place there and what flows from that becomes the result that the system passes onward. The discrepancies in turntable set up make the turntable sound different. Therefore two people thinking they are comparing apples to apples, because all of the other elements are the same, hear two different effects, comment on that truthfully and there is disagreement. One says "I hear X". The other says "I don't hear that. I hear Y". They disagree, but neither of them is inaccurate. They are hearing what they state they hear. The difference is due to the turntable set-up being different which makes the sound of the turntable different.
Vinyl replay is a mechanical process. There is a video on YouTube which shows a record being played with the edge of a new Australian $5 note. The 'music' we hear from vinyl is the mechanical bumps in the groove wall. The cartridge turns the push given by the bumps into an electrical signal. The trouble is that the cartridge doesn't know to ignore any other 'push' as distortion. So all of the vibration seen by the cartridge gets treated as signal to be passed along. We have to consider everything. Everything that moves when assessing the way a turntable sounds. Because it is the sum total of all the 'pushes' that we end-up listening to, at the output of our phonostages. Any movement that is ignored/not understood/overlooked/dismissed/incorrectly dealt-with either becomes part of the amplified signal or nulls out the stylus' ability to track and pass on something that was in the groove.
My own thoughts are that the less mechanical moving parts that make up the turntable/arm/cartridge system, the less opportunity to introduce spurious movement/spurious vibration. This is why I like the plinth to be non-suspended and the isolation to take place outside of the plinth. The plinth material can be made of a material with inherent self-damping. A material which inherently minimises propagation of vibration. There is a mountain of tests done on this already. The plinth does need to be dimensioned such that its volume will minimise acoustic pick up yet not become a trap for internally vibration. With regards to plinth volume for any given material, there is always a trade off between these two things. The best that can be achieved is a sensible balance between the two factors.
In many turntables what we see in many instances is designers copying other designs. There are quite few innovators but few who throw away the prior design approaches and take a completely new tack. Sometimes all that is needed is to apply a few prior approaches together that have never been used in combination.
I've already said that when we get to the level of the best turntables, the fine detail of the set-up is crucial. Don't necessarily think that I mean VTA,VTF, overhang. That is cartridge set-up. I truly mean turntable set up.
If two people are comparing their impressions of the same State Of The Art turntable, the requirement is that they have set the turntable up exactly the same. This is how a comparison needs to be made. If there is a discrepancy in the turntable set-up, they won't be comparing like to like. If the turntable is set up differently and everything else is the same, effectively they will be listening to two different turntables. Same arm. Same cartridge. Even same system and room down to the finest detail. Because the turntable is the Source Component, what takes place there and what flows from that becomes the result that the system passes onward. The discrepancies in turntable set up make the turntable sound different. Therefore two people thinking they are comparing apples to apples, because all of the other elements are the same, hear two different effects, comment on that truthfully and there is disagreement. One says "I hear X". The other says "I don't hear that. I hear Y". They disagree, but neither of them is inaccurate. They are hearing what they state they hear. The difference is due to the turntable set-up being different which makes the sound of the turntable different.
Vinyl replay is a mechanical process. There is a video on YouTube which shows a record being played with the edge of a new Australian $5 note. The 'music' we hear from vinyl is the mechanical bumps in the groove wall. The cartridge turns the push given by the bumps into an electrical signal. The trouble is that the cartridge doesn't know to ignore any other 'push' as distortion. So all of the vibration seen by the cartridge gets treated as signal to be passed along. We have to consider everything. Everything that moves when assessing the way a turntable sounds. Because it is the sum total of all the 'pushes' that we end-up listening to, at the output of our phonostages. Any movement that is ignored/not understood/overlooked/dismissed/incorrectly dealt-with either becomes part of the amplified signal or nulls out the stylus' ability to track and pass on something that was in the groove.
My own thoughts are that the less mechanical moving parts that make up the turntable/arm/cartridge system, the less opportunity to introduce spurious movement/spurious vibration. This is why I like the plinth to be non-suspended and the isolation to take place outside of the plinth. The plinth material can be made of a material with inherent self-damping. A material which inherently minimises propagation of vibration. There is a mountain of tests done on this already. The plinth does need to be dimensioned such that its volume will minimise acoustic pick up yet not become a trap for internally vibration. With regards to plinth volume for any given material, there is always a trade off between these two things. The best that can be achieved is a sensible balance between the two factors.
In many turntables what we see in many instances is designers copying other designs. There are quite few innovators but few who throw away the prior design approaches and take a completely new tack. Sometimes all that is needed is to apply a few prior approaches together that have never been used in combination.
I don't know about the best but I like my Denon DP-60L's, they look great and sound great running Denon DL-301'sI'd like to have a goldmund one day but that day will probably never come
Gotta love that almost 800lb TT using a Mars Rover motor, this is indisputably the King of technological/architectural coolness
Pio1980
AK Member
I know that the Statement is that I am not worthy. Oh, well, reincarnation and better finances can fix that.
