What if....VPI Classic vs Yamaha GT-2000
- Thread starter jblnut
- Start date
Just a few of questions, if I may?
What other turntables have you owned? I gather that if the GT continues to impress, that you haven't had it for a long time? What lead you to purchase one?
On the tonearm & immunity to feedback I won't argue with you, but I would be surprised if the speed stability would be on par. On another site, they've been comparing the speed stability while playing records of various models and most of the belt drives, including some $30k models, can't compare with quality direct drives. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I would be surprised if it did.
That would be the Pink Fish site correct?
Of course you may, though I don't want to hijack this thread.
I haven't had too many turntables, but currently have in active use Garrard 401 and Thorens TD126 Mk2 in addition to this GT2000 and also a Sony TTS8000 waiting for plinth.
I've had this GT2000 since February and bought it because:
a) it's a nice small package for the room, my wife really likes the looks
b) it's got a coreless motor with good torque, bidirectional servo, large platter, and heavy plinth
c) I read great things about it, from you among others
It would be the American site that also has large classifieds section.
How much linking to/talking about other sites is appropriate?
Audio Asylum?
The AudioKarma mods don't mind linking to other sites as much as I am aware, on the proviso that you are not denigrating or viciously attacking that site. That is my understanding anyway.
Here's the thread:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1388508870
The $30k model I was referring to is Halcro's AC-2. The SME 30 seems to do better.
Disclaimer: I don't know if or how this may affect the sound at all.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1388508870
The $30k model I was referring to is Halcro's AC-2. The SME 30 seems to do better.
Disclaimer: I don't know if or how this may affect the sound at all.
MWalt
Super Member
Theophile-not trying to hijack the OP's thread on the GT2000, but can you go into detail how you isolated yours?
jblnut
Don't Overthink It
A "nice small package" - the GT-2000 ??? Now that gave me quite a chuckle
It makes my VPI look small and that takes some doing....jblnut
I'll PM you.
Ken Wood Jr.
New Member
The SDS controller, when set up properly is capable of taking the speed stability of VPI tables to the point where you would be hard pressed to hear differences between the Prime belt drive and the Classic Direct as far as speed is concerned. One of my clients is an engineer and, he has measured after setting up his VPI Scout 2.0 with the Dr. Feikert test disc and the free app on his Iphone negligible meAsured differences between the average speed of his table and the stated average speed of the Classic Direct. The Classic direct has speed stability as good as the best JAPANESE direct drives, including our beloved GT-2000.
jblnut
Don't Overthink It
update
I have enclosed the picture that Theo was asking about earlier in this thread. It's one you don't normally see of the GT-2000 - the motor/platter base. I put a AA battery on there so you can get some sense of scale. It's just massive and looks like it belongs on something industrial.
My listening continues with the Pass Xono in the mix and now that the honeymoon period is over, I'm sensing some IGD. I am pursing a good protractor now so that I can get the alignment spot-on. Even with the way it is though, I really love the sound. The Pass is so silent and revealing that it's a perfect fit for the GT-2000 signal chain. It's the noise floor reduction that I notice most over the Tube Box II SE, as well as better defined bass notes.
Damn this hobby, now I need a better phono section for the VPI. And some better carts too but that's way outta budget this year.....
jblnut
I have enclosed the picture that Theo was asking about earlier in this thread. It's one you don't normally see of the GT-2000 - the motor/platter base. I put a AA battery on there so you can get some sense of scale. It's just massive and looks like it belongs on something industrial.
My listening continues with the Pass Xono in the mix and now that the honeymoon period is over, I'm sensing some IGD. I am pursing a good protractor now so that I can get the alignment spot-on. Even with the way it is though, I really love the sound. The Pass is so silent and revealing that it's a perfect fit for the GT-2000 signal chain. It's the noise floor reduction that I notice most over the Tube Box II SE, as well as better defined bass notes.
Damn this hobby, now I need a better phono section for the VPI. And some better carts too but that's way outta budget this year.....
jblnut
Attachments
Thanks for that photo. :thmbsp:
The photo that I was asking for earlier is of the underside of the platter. A photo of the underside illustrates that the platter is not merely a casting, which even so many elite Direct Drive turntables are. It shows that the platter is forged and machined top and bottom. :yes:
No casting.
jblnut
Don't Overthink It
Ok final update here on the GT-2000L for now...
I researched headshells and decided on the Orfotofon LH-8000. It's absolutely beautiful and made of wood. It's a bit darker than the table but the look is killer. And the sound? Instantly better than the PX2 shell I was borrowing.
Today my Mint protractor arrived from HK. This is really what I needed to get that last few percent out of my setup. It makes the process very easy and includes everything necessary to get the cartridge perfectly aligned.
The sound is stunning. Simply the best vinyl I have ever heard in my system. The table allows the AT33EV to extract the music from the grooves with grace and effortless fluidity. Bass is thunderous and downright startling at times while the high end remains clear and never overbearing. The Pass Xono is the silent partner in all this, just getting that tiny signal stepped up while preserving all of the details.
The GT has thrown down the gauntlet and its up to the VPI Classic to step up or get dusty with neglect. When the funding well is full again next year, the OC9 and Tube Box II SE will hit BT and I'll be on the hunt for pieces better suited to this table.
Stay tuned...round 1 is over but the battle has only just begun.
Jblnut
I researched headshells and decided on the Orfotofon LH-8000. It's absolutely beautiful and made of wood. It's a bit darker than the table but the look is killer. And the sound? Instantly better than the PX2 shell I was borrowing.
Today my Mint protractor arrived from HK. This is really what I needed to get that last few percent out of my setup. It makes the process very easy and includes everything necessary to get the cartridge perfectly aligned.
The sound is stunning. Simply the best vinyl I have ever heard in my system. The table allows the AT33EV to extract the music from the grooves with grace and effortless fluidity. Bass is thunderous and downright startling at times while the high end remains clear and never overbearing. The Pass Xono is the silent partner in all this, just getting that tiny signal stepped up while preserving all of the details.
The GT has thrown down the gauntlet and its up to the VPI Classic to step up or get dusty with neglect. When the funding well is full again next year, the OC9 and Tube Box II SE will hit BT and I'll be on the hunt for pieces better suited to this table.
Stay tuned...round 1 is over but the battle has only just begun.
Jblnut
Jblnut
Thanks for the assessment. I'll admit that I was somewhat uncertain as to how you would react to the '2000. I know that I was immediately impressed with the sound of the GT 2000 when I got mine over 6 years ago. Although I hadn't heard any top level turntables at the time for decades, I had a very clear memory for what they contribute to a system, and in my recollection the GT stood as good as or better than any of the best turntables that I'd heard over the years.
I've stood by that judgement and posted about it here and on other sites. What is difficult about telling others about the GT 2000 is that the person reading one's perception of the sound quality has no means of confirming whether that is a total crock or valid. The GT 2000 essentially existed only in one nation and no other. Despite being a decades old design, unlike all of the other well assessed classic designs of the last 4 decades there were no listeners who had owned the deck, heard it at a friend's house, heard it at a dealer's showroom or at a show for instance. It was a completely unknown quantity. It essentially didn't exist. Thus, my high praise of this deck, especially since it was made by a company without a track-record of producing top-flight turntables, may as well be the ravings of a brand fanboi who was banging the drum for his brand obsession. I guess that it was made worse by the fact that my previous two turntables were the Yamaha PX-3 and PX-2.
There was on AKer who had gone from a PX-2 to a well known belt drive who suggested to me in a post here on AK when I posted that I'd finally realsied how important the turntable was to the system quality, that I needed to ditch the GT 2000:
"HI theophile,
I'm not interested in telling you "I told you so" but I have been touting top end turntables on this forum since I have been a member. Mostly my admonitions have gone unheard. You have discovered the secret to building a great system.
The state-of-the-art in all areas of hi fi has been constantly moving; improving. This is why I have no interest in vintage equipment. For the most part the stuff is out of date. Sure, some of it can sound good (not great) and much of it is beautiful to look at. I won't deny that. But the sound is my goal and I won't find great sound on the vintage shelves.
There may be some exceptions but not many. For example, the Shure V15 Type V (I owned the Type I thru V) may be one of the greatest MM's ever made. But now we can't even get a decent repacement sylus for it. BTW, I have used MC cartridges for over 30 years. One of my favorite tone arms, the SME 3009 (I owned one) and its variants; out of date because their bearings resonate. I love the TD124 (I owned one) but it can't hold a candle to any turntable designed around the modern ideas of the Linn LP-12. Speakers may represent the area of greatest technical advance in hi fi. And, I have never heard a vintage solid state amp or receiver that I can stand to be in the same room with. Even vintage tube amps and preamps sound like complicated tone contnrols, including the great (in their time) Marantz tube amps. The world moves on.
Building a great system is a process of removing the weak links. You seem to now understand this. There is no substitute for GREAT equipment. Tweeks and mods can help but that process is just trimming the fuzz around the edge.
In my view, vintage equipment lovers fit into one of two catagories. The first is a person who wants decent sound cheap. The others are the romantics that are not true audiophiles but love the IDEA of hi fi equipment but don't have the ears to actually buy the great stuff. It is expensive but buying used takes some of the edge off. Cosmic Law #2 states that you always get what you pay for. Not more, and not less. Buying used requires that you know what you are after which, in turn requires years (decades) of experience.
Keep after it. Greatness is now within your reach. I love to see people have your revelation. Congratualtions.
BTW, move away from Japanese turntables and arms. They were never the best, even the best of them. I do think that high end Japanese MC cartridges are world class and are worth having.
Please do not get the mis-impression that I am talking down to you. That is my last wish. I am simply trying to confirm your experience from one who has been there, done it. On this particular forum I have often felt like the lone voice in the woods. It's frustrating."
So I was the fool who liked a Japanese Direct Drive.
I promise you that I didn't need anyone else to confirm to me whether the GT 2000 was great and that I wasn't a fool(on that matter at least). I did PM that AKer and gave him a polite piece of my mind. Also, my love of the GT's sound didn't need to be a competition similar to who has the biggest ......
I have gone on record here on AK as stating that it was the implementation of the method and not the method of drive which made a turntable great.
It was therefore very interesting for me to read VPI Classic owners Ken Wood Jr's and now recently your assessment of their GT 2000s. I rarely post about the GT 2000's sound quality. Mostly those posts are made within a thread specifically about the GT 2000 and nowhere else. If the subject is raised, I put my two cents in but otherwise I generally don't say much about it. If someone PMs me with a specific question about the GT's sound quality, I give them my honest opinion of the GT 2000. It actually surprises me when people say that they bought a GT based upon my opinion of it. That has been said more than once. Even though I do rate the GT 2000 highly, I have wished that there were others out there who could comment on the turntable, if only that there was another online presence doing the talking beside the one lone voice who seemed to have such a strong opinion without anyone else on the 'net with an experience to proffer.
Aside from a little bit of relief that I'm not the only voice now, I'm genuinely happy that you are sincerely enjoying your new turntable. For me it is about the musical satisfaction. I don't praise components because I want to praise components. I praise components which give musical satisfaction.
Enjoy your valued new acquisition Sir.