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What if....VPI Classic vs Yamaha GT-2000

majick47 said:
Theo wasn't the manual belt drive PF-800/1000 Yamahas answer to Linn LP-12?
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It was their response to fear that anything less than a belt drive TT would not find a market in the West such was the hysteria surrounding the Sondek.

You can hardly find a PF1000 in Japan. No-one was interested in them. The Linn is better anyway. The GT 2000 still holds great esteem there because many have heard it and that is all that is needed. Once heard always respected. The GT 2000 is relatively cheap in Japan simply because there were so many manufactured that there is always one or more for sale at any given time. They don't stay for sale for long. There is no trouble selling a working GT 2000 in Japan. You don't see many that are not working for that matter. They are obviously reliable and durable.

One of the great direct drive turntables and a great turntable period.
 
Maybe the West was bowled over by the LP-12 but the East wasn't about to part with the GT-2000 and the other TOTL Japanese direct drives.
 
theophile said:
You can hardly find a PF1000 in Japan. No-one was interested in them. The Linn is better anyway. The GT 2000 still holds great esteem there because many have heard it and that is all that is needed. Once heard always respected. The GT 2000 is relatively cheap in Japan simply because there were so many manufactured that there is always one or more for sale at any given time. They don't stay for sale for long. There is no trouble selling a working GT 2000 in Japan. You don't see many that are not working for that matter. They are obviously reliable and durable.
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"You can hardly find a PF-1000 in Japan" - maybe that's because, to the best of my knowledge it was an export only model? Their top line was belt driven PF tables for Europe (and maybe U.S. as well?) and GT-series DD for Japan.

IMO what that shows is just that perhaps in the end the drive method isn't that important, just the level of perfection that's achieved in designing and executing it. If you look back drive methods have come and gone, really seems to have been more about "fashion" than performance, but what has remained is the top executions of each method, all great tables.

For what it's worth, if the TT fairy would give me any table costing about the amount of GT-2000 or less, my pick would probably be the GT-2000 mainly because I have the itch for some solid feeling DD-action and it's a looker, enough of shiny stuff but simple and understated enough to stay classy. Looking at the HiFiDo prices, the GT-2000 also seems somewhat of a bargain compared to some other DD tables, which to me seem to be lesser tables for not much lower price.
 
Oh and I can't resist the GIGANTIC AND TREMONDOUS slogan, it's positively 80s japanese hilarious, but at least it isn't GIGANTIC AND TREMONDOUS QUARTZ CONTROLLED MICROPROCESSOR DRIVE REFERENCE TURNTABLE SYSTEM :)
 
Updates coming....

Well between work and family, I am falling behind in this thread - and since I started it that's pretty bad. I was only able to listen for about 20 minutes last night, and it wasn't nearly long enough I can tell you that. I will get some more time tonight I hope, and I'll try and answer everyone's questions.

A few thoughts initially:

1) HiFiDo really knows how to pack. That said, the dust cover still sustained a small crack near the back corner. I'm working that out with them now.

2) The auto-lift doesn't work at the moment. I need to remove the tonearm and see what's going on under there.

3) Shipping was a little over $300 to the Eastern US. Not cheap certainly, but where else are you going to find one of these ? I gave up waiting on Agon.

4) It's sure a heavy beast, but so is the VPI Classic. Moving either around really strains the back if you're not very careful.

5) Just like Theo did, I removed the headshell/cart from my PX2 and plugged it right in. Even the 50mm offset is the same and checking with a protractor from vinylengine showed everything looked good. I will get my buddy's OmniDisc soon for a more careful dialing-in.

6) I wish I had two identical carts and two identical phono sections so that I could give accurate A/B comparisons to the VPI. But I don't, so I think my comments from here on out may say more about the cart/pre differences as compared to the tables. Please keep that in mind.


My son and I played some classic rock and damn, the bass is sure there in spades with this table. Stronger even than the already solid PX2. More time and music selections are required before I can say much more about the sound than that. It certainly doesn't suck :-)

So far, no regrets and it looks...well pretty bad-ass :-). It's every bit as imposing as the Classic in that regard.

more later...


jblnut
 
Given the same time period, circ 1982, the Yamaha PF-800/1000 that was export only for Europe and North America was Yamahas answer to the LP-12 and from PF-800/1000owners reports didn't embarrasses itself being at least the equal.
 
jblnut said:
Well between work and family, I am falling behind in this thread - and since I started it that's pretty bad. I was only able to listen for about 20 minutes last night, and it wasn't nearly long enough I can tell you that. I will get some more time tonight I hope, and I'll try and answer everyone's questions.

A few thoughts initially:

1) HiFiDo really knows how to pack. That said, the dust cover still sustained a small crack near the back corner. I'm working that out with them now.

2) The auto-lift doesn't work at the moment. I need to remove the tonearm and see what's going on under there.

3) Shipping was a little over $300 to the Eastern US. Not cheap certainly, but where else are you going to find one of these ? I gave up waiting on Agon.

4) It's sure a heavy beast, but so is the VPI Classic. Moving either around really strains the back if you're not very careful.

5) Just like Theo did, I removed the headshell/cart from my PX2 and plugged it right in. Even the 50mm offset is the same and checking with a protractor from vinylengine showed everything looked good. I will get my buddy's OmniDisc soon for a more careful dialing-in.

6) I wish I had two identical carts and two identical phono sections so that I could give accurate A/B comparisons to the VPI. But I don't, so I think my comments from here on out may say more about the cart/pre differences as compared to the tables. Please keep that in mind.


My son and I played some classic rock and damn, the bass is sure there in spades with this table. Stronger even than the already solid PX2. More time and music selections are required before I can say much more about the sound than that. It certainly doesn't suck :-)

So far, no regrets and it looks...well pretty bad-ass :-). It's every bit as imposing as the Classic in that regard.

more later...


jblnut
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Although you have had an extremely limited taste of the GT you've noticed the bass vs the PX-2 bass. That was noticeable for me in the first seconds. You have an aural comparison that I never had(ie the Classic). I would not expect the GT to romp all over the VPI. Thus, I would not expect you to be quite as bowled-over with the sound having the Classic's sound as a mental-yardstick, as I was merely having the PX-2 sound as a yard-stick.

I doubt that you'll be disappointed in the GT just maybe not as bowled-over by it as I was. The Classic is an excellent turntable in its own right by all accounts.
 
Congrats - looks sweet!

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theophile said:
Well that would depend upon where you are. There are English speaking AKers with GT 2000 turntables who live in Japan. The shipping to them was minimal.

The shipping to me in Queensland Australia was about $400US. Not cheap. I'll tell you that if my GT 2000 died I'd buy another one. It is the foundation of my system and an amazing turntable simply as the stock unit. It zooms ahead in performance when carefully isolated to become something that needs to be heard to be believed. Just placing it upon a heavy stand is nothing approaching isolating it.

When the GT came out in '82. The West was in the thrall of the Linn Sondek. According to the accepted 'wisdom' no other turntable even approached the Linn on the grounds of performance. The Linn was available in Japan in '82 for half the price of the GT 2000. Despite that, the GT 2000 was a huge sales success for Yamaha. Many thousands of the GT 2000 types(GT 2000/GT 2000L) were sold. What does that tell you about the GT 2000 vs "The World's Best Turntable" in 1982?
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Where have you gotten that info from?

If I remember correct around 1984 the price in Japan for the GT-2000 was 138 000 YEN a Linn LP-12 with Ittok arm was 440 000 YEN (a packaged called Disk System in Japan if I remember correct).

A big part of this was of course the high import duties on foreign made products making them about twice as expensive.

With this being said I would have a GT-2000 any day of the week before a LP-12.
 
What a fun read your thread was Jblnut, and how fun it is to get something so enjoyable to add to the lineup. I don't doubt you will want to listen to your LP's all over again.

I understand the interest in comparisons, but really any of your tables are quite capable. I can understand your interest in having the same carts and phono amps to make comparisons, but really its not needed as both tables and even the PX2 are quite worthy tables. I would rather find carts that are quite different, yet that are ones that interest me, so that I have a selection to suit my moods, but that is just me. Anyway enjoy!
 
Further Listening...

OK, I have some more listening under my belt now so that I can share some insights with you all. First off the Round 1 setup:

GT-2000L/AT33EV->Pro-Ject Phono Box II SE
VPI Classic/AT OC9II->Pass Labs Xono

I'm about 10 hours (~20 albums) into the GT now and well, "the rumors are true". I will start by saying that I am what you might call " from Missouri" (the Show Me state) when it comes to audio. I make slow changes to my system (1 or two per year max) *not* expecting to hear changes. I don't listen for anything special and I actually hope that I don't hear improvements. Why? so I can send back/sell whatever it is I've convinced myself that I need in order to keep peace with my wife in this hobby :-).

In this case however, the GT really surprised me. How could I hear differences using the same cart (and headshell) I just pulled from the PX-2 ? Doesn't the cart make the biggest difference ? Isn't the linear tracking of the PX-2 basically as good as it gets ? Well...

The old cliche of "I heard things I never heard before" came true. I was picking out subtle sounds of fingers on fret boards, greater weight and definition of bass guitar notes, better distinction of complex high harmonics from synths and cymbals, etc. I just couldn't believe it...this is what I had wanted but never achieved with all my experiments with the VPI Classic, Denon DL-S1 and Pass Labs Xono. More details AND more enjoyment !

My only issue now was the relatively high background noise of the Pro-Ject in this setup. Compared with the insanely low (for the gain) noise of the Xono, the Pro-Ject makes itself heard when the volume levels get, shall we say realistic (For Classic Rock). I like the slight smoothing you get from the tube buffer, but I am now wondering (as are many of you I am sure) - why don't I hook up the GT to the Xono ?

That happened last night :-) but that's another post and I'm out of time...


jblnut

PS - it looks like both the big boys are staying and the PX-2 is moving upstairs. Look out for my mint PF-800 in BT this weekend....
 
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WOW.

OK. I didn't expect you to say that. What I mean is, I know the GT 2000 is a knockout. Without reservations. I had expected you to like it, but considering that you've lived with the VPI Classic, I didn't expect you to be bowled over.

That has really surprised me. :yes:

I have to go out now. I'll post more later. I'm very happy for you. It is a great turntable and just think: What you are hearing now is just the beginning. The power supply nudges things appreciably further and isolation makes the GT take off like a rocket.

It's great now, but it gets better. :thmbsp:
 
GT-2000 VS VPI Classic II

Looks like you're having fun with the two tables. I don't think A/B comparisons are necessary. I'd plug the GT-2000 into the Pass pre with my best cart and listen to a lot of music. Make sure you use a good headshell like an Orsonic. You'll find pitch stability with the GT-2000 to be quite addictive. A big part of the success with the VPI arm is your ability to adjust it perfectly. My advice is to track at maximum force for your cart. Use as little of the anti skating as possible. Make sure azimuth is freaking perfect. Use the supplies jig and nothing else for overhang. Make sure your platter is level. Make sure your stylus is level on a 180 gram cart. After that, the table should sound amazing. I just sold my demo model of the Classic II today with the Soundsmith Zephyr MKII to a very happy client. Why? Because I've ordered the new VPI Prime with the SDS controller and 3D printed tonearm. This combo will retail for $4500.00, which is $300.00 more then the Classic II I had in Piano Black. I fully expect this to be not only significantly superior to the Classic II, I expect it to be superior to the GT-2000 for the following reasons. It's immunity to feedback will be close to the GT-2000, it's speed stability will be right on par and the 3D arm will take it right over the edge. That arm is virtually impervious to compliance mismatches. I'm going to mount a Ortofon Cadenza Bronze to it, and man- I think we'll be in analog heaven. I do have a spare Classic III wand, and I intend to install a less expensive cart on it, but I'm not sure which. I wonder if the Soundsmith Aida would be a good compliance match.
 
Ken Wood Jr. said:
Looks like you're having fun with the two tables. I don't think A/B comparisons are necessary. I'd plug the GT-2000 into the Pass pre with my best cart and listen to a lot of music. Make sure you use a good headshell like an Orsonic. You'll find pitch stability with the GT-2000 to be quite addictive. A big part of the success with the VPI arm is your ability to adjust it perfectly. My advice is to track at maximum force for your cart. Use as little of the anti skating as possible. Make sure azimuth is freaking perfect. Use the supplies jig and nothing else for overhang. Make sure your platter is level. Make sure your stylus is level on a 180 gram cart. After that, the table should sound amazing. I just sold my demo model of the Classic II today with the Soundsmith Zephyr MKII to a very happy client. Why? Because I've ordered the new VPI Prime with the SDS controller and 3D printed tonearm. This combo will retail for $4500.00, which is $300.00 more then the Classic II I had in Piano Black. I fully expect this to be not only significantly superior to the Classic II, I expect it to be superior to the GT-2000 for the following reasons. It's immunity to feedback will be close to the GT-2000, it's speed stability will be right on par and the 3D arm will take it right over the edge. That arm is virtually impervious to compliance mismatches. I'm going to mount a Ortofon Cadenza Bronze to it, and man- I think we'll be in analog heaven. I do have a spare Classic III wand, and I intend to install a less expensive cart on it, but I'm not sure which. I wonder if the Soundsmith Aida would be a good compliance match.
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If you could put a 10.5 inch 3D arm on the GT 2000..... :music:
 
I was already thinking that. But since that would be a bitch to take on, I'm giving serious consideration to putting the 3D arm on my Luxman PD-444
 
The 3D arm might be difficult, but other arms are easier - though this too still requires adjustment.
 

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