What Year Did Solid-State Start Sounding Good?
- Thread starter ScottFan355
- Start date
ScottFan355
Super Member
Interesting responses, it seems the majority of people put it at late 60s to '76 or so. I would have said '74 - '76. I thought for sure someone would have said the 90s or even after.
I've found quite a lot of love for the 60s gear.
Some serious interest in the first few Sony.
Web sites dedicated to very early units from Kenwood.
I've found the popular units needing restoration to make them right again.
Old caps and tired transistors knock the good out of them.
I've noticed that as the years passed, the gear became more and more consumer grade.
Economics and tech advances made things cheaper and made less well.
IC development at the end of the 70s and the end of the stereo wars pretty much took out a lot of profit for development and design and manufacture.
Any comparison between old unrestored gear spanning years is pretty much worthless.
Some serious interest in the first few Sony.
Web sites dedicated to very early units from Kenwood.
I've found the popular units needing restoration to make them right again.
Old caps and tired transistors knock the good out of them.
I've noticed that as the years passed, the gear became more and more consumer grade.
Economics and tech advances made things cheaper and made less well.
IC development at the end of the 70s and the end of the stereo wars pretty much took out a lot of profit for development and design and manufacture.
Any comparison between old unrestored gear spanning years is pretty much worthless.
nj pheonix
Lunatic Member
I have a 2100 I still enjoy!
GrundigXpert
Active Member
Some early SS HiFi amps sounded as good as, or even better in some aspects (dynamics) than tube amps. One example for all: the Harman Kardon SR900 receiver. Surviving units are now more than 50 years old, so they all need some overhauling.
stevo137
Super Member
Some may say that my Epi M1 should be recapped and rewired etc. because it's over 43 years old and all original.
I'm not doing that because it still sounds great and works flawlessly and barely even gets warm even at high output.
I'm sure it would be good for the amp but I'm on a quest to see how long it will continue to operate as well as it does as all original.
I do alternate using the three channels on a regular basis.
The M1 sold for just under $1,000 in
1974 and there's some great stuff in there.
I'm not doing that because it still sounds great and works flawlessly and barely even gets warm even at high output.
I'm sure it would be good for the amp but I'm on a quest to see how long it will continue to operate as well as it does as all original.
I do alternate using the three channels on a regular basis.
The M1 sold for just under $1,000 in
1974 and there's some great stuff in there.
Last edited:
I don't think is fair to say the amps in 70s were made better. Amps in those days were not cheap, sure it's only $200 to $300, BUT if you calculate for inflation, it will equal to $1500 for today's money. You cannot compare those old amps with the $300 amps of today, of cause the $300 amp toady are cheap crap. BUT if you go with the inflation and look at the $1500 amp of today, you sure can find amps that kick the butt of the old amp both in sound quality AND build quality. You cannot even start to compare.
You cannot compare technology from the 70s to today, The knowledge of the engineer, the quality of transistor are a quantum leap from the 70s particular the early 70s. Transistors were new back in those days and people are still not familiar with them. Transistors are much inferior. They cannot handle the voltage, they are slow. These put great limitation how you can design the amp even if you have all the knowledge of today.
I would not pay anything for any amp before the 80s. This is not something people should be nostalgic about it, this is technology and it moved on, leaving those in the 70s in the dust.
It's only towards the late 80s where the new transistors available in the market that the amps are as good as today's. You want the antique look, buy the old 70s amp, then hide a newer amp behind for use.
I remember in the late 70s, I bought a SAE 2 integrated amp for about $450. It was a good amp, BUT for todays money of at least $1500, I sure can get a better amp than the SAE2. You need to put this into perspective.
Last edited:
nj pheonix
Lunatic Member
(Response to stevo)
Common wisdom is its due (At least all the electrolyrics). That said I've seen older pieces still working fine on originals longer than that. I'm not familiar with that piece. I do know certain gear has caps that when they fail take out unobtainium transistors. I'm not counseling. There is adequate info out there. Enjoy!
Common wisdom is its due (At least all the electrolyrics). That said I've seen older pieces still working fine on originals longer than that. I'm not familiar with that piece. I do know certain gear has caps that when they fail take out unobtainium transistors. I'm not counseling. There is adequate info out there. Enjoy!
Last edited:
stevo137
Super Member
NJ, don't worry, when that day comes, I will donate her to the AK audio science research dept. to see why she lasted so long. ;-)"
Last edited:
Actually, it wasn't just the amps, it was speakers also. People were buying and replacing tube amps for SS that were driving higher efficiency speakers designed for tube amps lower power rating. These did not sound good and the blame was placed on the SS amps. I think the two evolved together. Speaker designers were designing lower efficiency speakers and the SS amp designers were increasing the power of the SS amps to match. That is how the power wars started...
woodj
Super Member
Late 60's.
Djcoolray
Addicted Member
I liked many receivers during the seventies but the sound between SS and tube is just slightly comparable. The mids on a good high-end tube set up will sound more three dimensional. Then distortion values between tube and SS didn't really change until the eighties with the equipment made in the early nineties the quietest. Having a THD that is lower in distortion and having a S/N that is higher gives equipment a lower noise floor and more definition and separation to the speakers plus the ability to use more sensitive speakers. The only thing is, after the seventies it was more difficult to find good equipment unless you took the time to actually understand why equipment sounded great. In the seventies you could purchase just about anything and get a decent sound. After '83 you actually had to know something about stereo equipment or you got burned...
I have the Sony TA-1120A integrated amp from around 1969, and I love it. It's billed by some as the first SS integrated and uses top-quality components. It is a very smooth and neutral amp, and it's the only piece of SS gear I refuse to sell.
this is so true. In the tube days, it is hard to get over 50W ( limit of a pair of EL34 and 6L6), you have to have high efficiency speakers. High efficiency speakers must have a narrower gap where the voice coil moving to create stronger magnetic field to increase efficiency. This make the speaker response more non linear. But with SS amp, they don't have problem getting more power output, speaker designer can make use of this to design speakers with wider gap and the speaker response becomes lot more linear. But the efficiency goes down and the tube amps are going to find it hard to drive.
Even with low voltage transistors back int the days, if you make the impedance of the speaker lower, you get more power out of the SS amp, but this does not work for tube amps. Say, if you use 4ohm speakers, you can get 100W out of a SS amp that has rail voltages of only +/-32V!!! Even the early silicon transistors can handle this low rail voltage. Try to get 100W out of a tube amp!!!
I don't feel nostalgic for the good old days, I think a lot of it is psychosomatic thinking the old ones are better built, more quality. They even program their brains think the old ones are better. Just like how many times you hear that cars are not made as good like the good old days. That the new cars are like tin cans, all plastic.............I want to show this test by IIHS offset frontal crash between a cheapy Chev Malibu and the good old 59 Belair that is heavier, more metal and all.............
Look at the passenger compartment collapse on the Belair, the driver is likely won't survive. Look at the Malibu, the whole passenger compartment stayed put, driver can walk away from that.
Look at the new cars today, 100,000 miles is only well broken in if you maintain the car well. 100,000 miles on those old cars, they are heading to the junk yard. But still, people say they don't make cars like the older days. Yes, they sure don't make cars like older days..........They are a quantum leap better than those in the older days.
Look at the passenger compartment collapse on the Belair, the driver is likely won't survive. Look at the Malibu, the whole passenger compartment stayed put, driver can walk away from that.
Look at the new cars today, 100,000 miles is only well broken in if you maintain the car well. 100,000 miles on those old cars, they are heading to the junk yard. But still, people say they don't make cars like the older days. Yes, they sure don't make cars like older days..........They are a quantum leap better than those in the older days.
ConradH
Lunatic Member
Back in '70 the Tiger amp I referred to earlier and, I think, the Citation 12 amp, were based on opamp topology. Sure, we're smarter and circuits have evolved a bit. Devices are faster. Heck, way faster than the MJ802 and MJ4502 of the time, or their TI subs (2N6328?), though they handled current well. Still, you can still see that history in most amps today. How much has the SQ really improved since then. We like to say this or that is astoundingly better than whatever, but IMO the differences aren't really that big in absolute terms.
I am not saying the new amps are that much better, but definitely not the old amps are better than the new ones that we need to stay with the old ones. I think the quality of the amps pretty much stay the same since the late 80s, but before that, there's definitely a lot more challenge for the amp designer due to the limits of the components.
