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What Year Did Solid-State Start Sounding Good?

This. I have a Sherwood S-9900a integrated amplifier made in Chicago around '67 that sounds pretty nice; It was made when they were still selling the last of their tube units, so it's voiced to sound like a tube amp. Also made with common, easy to find components and made before the bean counters took over. I just had it rebuilt at Stereorehab in Chicago. They replaced the old outputs with NOS output transistors from '68.
 
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I have a Grundig SV 50, which was the world's first mass-produced solid state integrated amp, introduced in August 1963. It's 20 WPC, which is actually quite a lot considering its age, it handles 4 ohm speakers without any problems and it sounds really good, so I'd say solid state sounded good from the start - when done right.

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I think this argument is a moot point. I've heard great sounding tube amps and I've heard bad sounding tube amps. Same with solid state........I think it has more to do with the amplifier's design that has to do with how good it sounds vs whether it has tubes or not. I believe it has to do with matching your speakers to your amp as well......as someone else said, people found that efficient speakers sounded better with lower powered inefficient tube amps rather than high powered solid state amps. The whole reason high powered solid state amps were developed in the first place were for the inefficient acoustic suspension speaker design that everyone was finding out sounded better than any horn loaded speaker from before. Plus it was cheaper and easier to design a high powered solid state amp than a high powered tube amp......imagine the cost of something like that back then, nevermind now!
 
While I don't argue your points, it really didn't address the question. That is, it wasn't a tubes sound better, SS sound better question. It came down to the transition period.
I think to summarize, we (the collective) feel some very early (out of the gate) were good. Most not as. By mid to later 60s into the early 70s they hit their stride and the main stream very good with a few not so much. (As seems to be the case of any era)
Like everything else , we all have our favorites (not likely anybody has heard everything (in properly working condition) so it gets very subjective very fast!
 
Many folks' first encounter with transistor amp sound was thru the dreadful germanium/ space charge bias tube transformer coupled hybrid car radios. Remembering the doorknob Delco germanium power transistors with something less than fondness.
 
I have a couple of DTG2400 transistors. Slow, but for those times their specs are good. Maybe, if I ever have to fix some early germanium amp, I will use them.
 
Again, the nostalgic factor, The baby boomer is holding the world back, try to prevent the world from turning. Before you start jumping on me, I am 64 and I belong to the tail end of baby boomer also. I just don't listen to the old music from the 60s and 70s at all. Music composition, musician quality is of different world today compare to the 60s. I was a serious muscian back in the late 60s and 70s, I don't listen to Clapton, Hendrix and the like at all now, world has moved on, to me, they have their place in the history, but people take their knowledge and run with it, a quantum leap advanced already. Just like we take the knowledge of great Nelson Pass and other great designers and run with it.
I'm not "tail end" of boomerdom, I preceded it, I was born during WW2, though only by five days, and grew up during the b-boom. And I am amazed that all my contemporaries listen to '60s music all the time. I don't get it, they've heard those songs thousands and thousands of times! Even the greatest works of Bach and Beethoven can't withstand that kind of repetition, and I don't think John, Paul, Bob and Jimi ever scaled those heights — or even reached base camp. I loved that music, saw most of the groups live — but at the time. It hasn't endured. I agree with some of the later comments that Hendrix was special, shamanic — I saw him live 30+ times, at big venues like Fillmore and mostly at a small club where he jammed — and he was the certified genius of that time. But I don't listen to him either, even though I knew him. Why are my friends so fixated on that music to the exclusion of all others? Or is it me something's wrong with? ('Scuse the grammar.)
 
Mark Levinson. First his pre-amp. That was a ton of money back then. If you weren't alive or buying things in 74, it cost more than cars did. Plural---you could buy a couple new cars for what that pre-amp cost. Changed the ballgame. It started the price is no object just get the best sound manufacturing. Then other companies came in doing the same thing and it changed everything.

A true iconic product.
 
Seems to be a moving target in time. Just read a 30 odd year rave review on the "new" Adcom GFA-555, f.i.
 
Mr
Iwasaki Chiaki came in his review of luxman sq507x in the japanese hifi magazine
Swing Journal November issue (issued in October 1971) to the conclusion that ;

"The SQ 507 X released by Lux is the "first" product that can reach the level of SQ 38 FD just to overtake it"

japanese text here: http://audiosharing.com/review/?p=4928#comments
for those interested i insert this rather bad Google translation ;

Iwasaki Chiaki


Swing Journal November issue (issued in October 1971) From
'SJ selection new product listening notes'


 Lux's new amplifier SQ507X to introduce here is the amplifier which is the most attractive in the product to be announced in the fall of 1970 and is not ashamed of the name of SJ selection which secured the quality which can fully meet the expectation.
 As seen in the company's best-selling SQ38FD amplifier, Lux has commercialized and commercialized only the single tube type currently in the market today, with a very conservative color manufacturer .Nissei Moon, the pitch of technology is remarkable.Today, as a stereo manufacturer transistor amps can make their widths wider, the fact that SQ38FD is still being used as a product is on both the good side and the bad side of this manufacturer.
 The good side, in spite of it being, is that it preserves the skill that luxury mania wants, and it is a stereo manufacturer boasting "understanding of music".It can be said that the bad side is making the reason why transistor makers made by this manufacturer are not as good as other companies, and the masterpiece SQ38FD has thinned the shadow of many Laks made transistor and amp It is a fact.
 For those who know the high quality of Lux's amplifier, probably not worrying that it will not be possible to keep the position of Lux as an amplifier manufacturer in the future without hitting the image of SQ38 FD It is a common concern and it must have been an expectation for future amplifiers as well.
 The SQ 507 X released by Lux is the "first" product that can reach the level of SQ 38 FD just to overtake it.
 When I touched the sound of this amp, the contents of this amp had almost never changed from the already released SQ 505 X. I was told that I just switched the power stage to a powerful stone and uploaded the output, I doubted it It is so.In other words, compared with SQ 505 X, the improvement of the tone is clear.<AFrom i = 6> depth and moist sounds, I can hardly imagine the same circuit scheme as SQ505X.Daringly, it can be said that it is a sound close to the JBL amplifier, and it can be said that it inherits the beautiful sound peculiar to SQ 38F. For me who is captive of jazz sound, the sound of Lux's transistor amp, which I have touched up so far, always tastes enough of attack and dullness, but for this SQ 507 X There was not at all.The power of solo by alto and tenor, the resonance which the piano's attack gotchiri, both SQ507X fired out spectacularly.The glow of the cymbals and the thick swells of the bass were reproduced easily.This depth was comparable to the powerful base obtained in SQ 38 FD, and the glow of the trumpet surpassed even the SQ 38 FD.As this moist, if you seek a brilliant moisture other than that, JBL is the only transistor / amplifier. This glossy and straightforward sound must be a product resulting from a fusion of all tiers directly connected with a tone control circuit of a simple constitution peculiar to LUX.If it adds further, it will be in a composition that wasteful of the waste and dropped meat meat entirely without increasing the composition stage at once. Besides, the weight of 11 kg of this amplifier means relaxed regulation of the power supply circuit, and it will show enough consideration of thorough manufacturers' technical staff up to the invisible place. SQ507X which Lucks took on the pride and quality as the highest grade product of all stages directly connected amplifiers such as SQ505X, 503X, which Lucks saw this autumn, is probably a powerful indexing force for future development of this manufacturer .I = 7> If I am captured by the jazz sound, the sound of the Lux's transistor amp, which I have touched up so far, always tastes the attraction and dullness of the tooth for the attack, but on this SQ 507 X There was not it at all.The power of solo by alto and tenor, the resonance which the piano's attack gotchiri, both SQ507X fired out spectacularly.The glow of the cymbals and the thick swells of the bass were reproduced easily.This depth was comparable to the powerful base obtained in SQ 38 FD, and the glow of the trumpet surpassed even the SQ 38 FD.As this moist, if you seek a brilliant moisture other than that, JBL is the only transistor / amplifier.This glossy and straightforward sound must be a product resulting from a fusion of all tiers directly connected with a tone control circuit of a simple constitution peculiar to LUX.If it adds further, it will be in a composition that wasteful of the waste and dropped meat meat entirely without increasing the composition stage at once.Besides, the weight of 11 kg of this amplifier means relaxed regulation of the power supply circuit, and it will show enough consideration of thorough manufacturer technical teams to the invisible place.SQ507X that Lucks embarked on the pride and quality as the highest grade product of all stages directly connected amplifiers such as SQ505X, 503X, which Lux was made this fall, it is probably a powerful indexing force for future development of this manufacturer .I = 7> If I am captured by the jazz sound, the sound of the Lux's transistor amp, which I have touched up so far, always tastes the attraction and dullness of the tooth for the attack, but on this SQ 507 X There was not it at all.The power of solo by alto and tenor, the resonance which the piano's attack gotchiri, both SQ507X fired out spectacularly.The glow of the cymbals and the thick swells of the bass were reproduced easily.This depth was comparable to the powerful base obtained in SQ 38 FD, and the glow of the trumpet surpassed even the SQ 38 FD.As this moist, if you seek a brilliant moisture other than that, JBL is the only transistor / amplifier.This glossy and straightforward sound must be a product resulting from a fusion of all tiers directly connected with a tone control circuit of a simple constitution peculiar to LUX.If it adds further, it will be in a composition that wasteful of the waste and dropped meat meat entirely without increasing the composition stage at once.Besides, the weight of 11 kg of this amplifier means relaxed regulation of the power supply circuit, and it will show enough consideration of thorough manufacturers' technical staff up to the invisible place.SQ507X that Lucks embarked on the pride and quality as the highest grade product of all stages directly connected amplifiers such as SQ505X, 503X, which Lux was made this fall, it is probably a powerful indexing force for future development of this manufacturer .I = 8> This glossy and straightforward sound must be a product resulting from the fusion of the tone control circuit with a simple structure unique to LUX and all stages directly connected.If it adds further, it will be in a composition that wasteful of the waste and dropped meat meat entirely without increasing the composition stage at once.Besides, the weight of 11 kg of this amplifier means relaxed regulation of the power supply circuit, and it will show enough consideration of thorough manufacturers' technical staff up to the invisible place.SQ507X which Lucks took on the pride and quality as the highest grade product of all stages directly connected amplifiers such as SQ505X, 503X, which Lucks saw this autumn, is probably a powerful indexing force for future development of this manufacturer .I = 8> This glossy and straightforward sound must be a product resulting from the fusion of the tone control circuit with a simple structure unique to LUX and all stages directly connected.If it adds further, it will be in a composition that wasteful of the waste and dropped meat meat entirely without increasing the composition stage at once.Besides, the weight of 11 kg of this amplifier means relaxed regulation of the power supply circuit, and it will show enough consideration of thorough manufacturers' technical staff up to the invisible place.SQ507X which Lucks took on the pride and quality as the highest grade product of all stages directly connected amplifiers such as SQ505X, 503X, which Lucks saw this autumn, is probably a powerful indexing force for future development of this manufacturer .


I spend some very formative musical years with a luxman sq507x buying a secondhand example at age 18 loved it until it was stolen after 6 years.
i was not able to find a satisfying replacement nothing sounded just right and i actually stopped listening to music for many years not being able to find that special magic again.

lately - in the last 5 years i have like so many others of my age backtracked in search of lost joys and have made a small Collection after i first recreated that magic setup from my youth and later fell victim to the notorius hifi bug.
so i have the 507 precessor to the 507x which are SEPP OTL capacitor coupled versus the later 507x which are pure complementary of a modern design.

there is quite a leap ind sq between these units which supports restorer-johns commentary.

Paul lehmann

Wut?
 
I have one of the early Mac solid state monoblocks, but have yet to get into it, lacking a reasonably priced mate.
Sudgen gets credit for being early for good sounding solid state, as mentioned earlier.
 
this is so true. In the tube days, it is hard to get over 50W ( limit of a pair of EL34 and 6L6), you have to have high efficiency speakers. High efficiency speakers must have a narrower gap where the voice coil moving to create stronger magnetic field to increase efficiency. This make the speaker response more non linear. But with SS amp, they don't have problem getting more power output, speaker designer can make use of this to design speakers with wider gap and the speaker response becomes lot more linear. But the efficiency goes down and the tube amps are going to find it hard to drive.

Even with low voltage transistors back int the days, if you make the impedance of the speaker lower, you get more power out of the SS amp, but this does not work for tube amps. Say, if you use 4ohm speakers, you can get 100W out of a SS amp that has rail voltages of only +/-32V!!! Even the early silicon transistors can handle this low rail voltage. Try to get 100W out of a tube amp!!!

Apples to oranges. Why would you want to get 100 watts out of a tube amp? My 30wpc Fisher 400 will pound your face off. My 60 wpc Mark IIIs will melt you into the chair.

Lack of power is not my dilemma.

If I want to get into a power discussion, I can fire up my Kenwood L09s but most are more impressed with my Mark IIIs or Fisher, depending on what we're listening to and what kind of 12Ax7s/5751s I have in my Pas2 at that time.
 
My Fisher 700T from 1967 was, and is, quite good sounding. Not tinny sounding like some of the era.
 
Well we've definitely gone off-topic but I'm sure I'm far from the only one who disagrees with you... Jimi channeled an energy that very few can come close to, a shaman if you will. And that goes far beyond technique.

Lately, I've been listening to some of Jimi's live Monterey stuff, specifically Bold as Love and it will give you chills. Popa Chubby, Hey Joe, youtube that sometime.
 
What year would people say solid-state came into it's own and could reasonably compete with the sound of tubes?
That's a question I wanted an answer to myself. But I'm not going to make any comparison to tubes.
So, I started rounding up the usual suspects some of which you see in the pictures.
The first one being the SX-780 and going as far back as mid 60's with the
Harman Kardon SR-900.
Kenwood TK-60
Sansui TR-707A.
So far the results have been very surprising.
The three oldest ones circa 65 are very capable receivers and sound very very good even in as is condition. The best seem to be between 68 and 74.
I had expected the 77 to 79 units to run away with the show. Hasn't happened yet, but it's still early.
It's going to be awhile yet before I come to any conclusions because I'm still learning to evaluate.
I think having them all here in hand will help in that process.
 

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