Why re-cap speakers?
- Thread starter guest139
- Start date
Another can of capacitor worms! My opinion is simply this, old electrolytic capacitors are usually bad, going bad, or may totally die in 5 minutes or 5 years. Just replace them with cheap PE electrolytic capacitors (most) and be done for a few dollars and minimal time. I am also in the camp of like for like, especially if electrolytic caps were used originally. I won't go into the different sound characteristics of even electrolytic's or higher grade capacitors, but there is a difference besides ESR! If anyone has the time, equipment, and experience to re-engineer a crossover, why waste your time, build your own speakers and sell them.
In short, re-capping is just a preventive measure to insure your speakers keep running as close to the original design as possible, of course if you change the type or values it's not as initially designed. Just my 2 cents!
In short, re-capping is just a preventive measure to insure your speakers keep running as close to the original design as possible, of course if you change the type or values it's not as initially designed. Just my 2 cents!
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guest139
Active Member
1. I simply meant that I’m not a newbie. I was bitten by the audio bug in 1987 and then started installing custom residential a/v systems in 1998 and then went on to installing large commercial systems in large venues up to NRG Stadium and Toyota Center here in Houston. So my point is I’ve installed and heard thousands of speakers over the years. Audio isn’t just my hobby it’s how I make a living.Not trying to be an ass, but I have a few questions.
1. What does 30 years in the hobby have anything to do with anything? (Just poking ya)
2. What caps do you use? (Please don’t respond Dayton)
3. Have you ever recapped speakers yourself and noticed an upgrade in sound?
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You had mentioned a singe cap XO.. ^^ JBL L16s ^^ was a single cap, now they are at exact values.
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I agree on some of your points but I think you are failing to see that it’s not the just “uF” values that can affect the sound of a driver. You may keep the crossover point the same with similar caps of equal value.
An example/question for you:
If a speaker has a 4.7uf cap for the high pass, what you are saying is if I were to put any old cap that is 4.7uf In and I would get the same sound stage as a top end high grade 4.7uf cap?
I agree most folks don’t test the original caps, some of us do. I do when it comes to JBL a lot of times the paper caps are a good 10-20% out of spec.
I also agree that lots of folks say they don’t notice a difference, then I see they used an equal grade cap as to what was already installed. You won’t notice a sonic upgrade unless you upgrade to a better cap.
2.&3. I’ve never bothered re-capping speakers because I know I’m not going to keep them. I always end up selling them. The only mods I will do are ones that will improve the structural integrity of the cabinets, minimize internal reflections, and minimize driver and cabinet resonances. The only speakers I will ever keep are ones that I buid to my specifications.
On the caps, I assumed by your post that you have been down this road. I guess I was mistaken.
If you never keep them why worry about what other people do with there gear? Lol
I’m just trying to figure this out as many folks understand the benefits of a good crossover rebuild can bring.
Ok well to best answer your question... Quality caps do and will change the sound of a driver. This will overall change the tonal quality of any given set of speakers.
And yes, I have done side by sides on recapped and stock speakers. Many times. The low grade caps that most use will not warrant better SQ.
How do you personally know there is no sound improvement?
guest139
Active Member
Well I never buy speakers without auditioning them first. If I don’t like the way they sound I’m not going to buy them. And I never keep them long enough for the caps to degrade. Passive crossovers are a necessary evil so I usually stick to 2-way speakers that either use a 2-way 12dB/octave slope or a single cap on the tweeter.
RTally
Speaker addict
I am confused as to why you started this thread. It seems you have made up your mind that recapping is unnecessary for your situation. What did you hope to accomplish in this thread other than to get members arguing back and forth?
guest139
Active Member
The purpose of the thread is to get people’s input as to when they believe a speaker should be re-capped. My opinion is that it is done more often than necessary. You’re entitled to your opinion too.
Unless it comes with top notch crossover components it's time to upgrade them.
HiFi in WYO
The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest.
You only buy brand new speakers?
Why do people tweak their cars? They're perfectly capable out of the factory.
biscuithead
Me likes the eargasm retroplasm...
I think everyone is correct in this thread.
Do it,
Don’t do it,
Opinion,
Fact,
Improved sound,
Measured sound,
Old cap, crap.
Apologies, I just finished reading a Dr. Seuss book to my 5 Year old.
Do it,
Don’t do it,
Opinion,
Fact,
Improved sound,
Measured sound,
Old cap, crap.
Apologies, I just finished reading a Dr. Seuss book to my 5 Year old.
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
Re-capping can be as important and beneficial as good paragraph structure.
quiet
Addicted Member
Your opinion is correct, it's done more often than necessary. Because we don't always know if it's necessary till it's done.
I can judge a speaker to sound fine as is with old caps, only to find that with new caps it sounds finer.
Happens a lot with old speakers built with good boxes and drivers.
Cheap speakers? Don't bother.
sqlsavior
Lunatic Member
The notion that aural memory is poor, glommed onto by audio wags around the world after mis-interpreting experiments involving sensory or short-term memory, is incorrect. The confusion experienced by puzzled listeners during rapid-switching A/B tests re-inforces that incorrect notion. The truth is that aural experiences committed to long-term memory are as durable as any other memories. Audiophiles should remember this
, and stop parroting popular nonsense. The best way to notice and appreciate subtle differences is to introduce a change (preferably one change only) to a system that you are thoroughly accustomed to. Rapid A/B switching is good for revealing tonality differences, and that is about it.
This is really not an important thing
The notion that aural memory is poor, glommed onto by audio wags around the world after mis-interpreting experiments involving sensory or short-term memory, is incorrect. The confusion experienced by puzzled listeners during rapid-switching A/B tests re-inforces that incorrect notion. The truth is that aural experiences committed to long-term memory are as durable as any other memories. Audiophiles should remember this
Having taught a course in Aural Recognition (critical listening) for 3yrs and 2000+ students you are pretty much spot on.
Edit: I will add that IME trying to teach people to listen, more can’t “critically listen” than can.
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quiet
Addicted Member
Yes, far more go neglected than go overworked. Judging from what shows up here at the house.
If I had to do all or none it would have to be all.
guest139
Active Member
Are you saying that one cannot determine a difference in sound quality by doing an A/B test?The notion that aural memory is poor, glommed onto by audio wags around the world after mis-interpreting experiments involving sensory or short-term memory, is incorrect. The confusion experienced by puzzled listeners during rapid-switching A/B tests re-inforces that incorrect notion. The truth is that aural experiences committed to long-term memory are as durable as any other memories. Audiophiles should remember this
StimpyWan
Addicted Member
I think he is saying a simple A/B test is sometimes not enough. Or maybe, just a start.
Many espouse the blind A/B test. While good in theory, maybe not the best solution. Oftentimes, a blind A/B test is performed in an unfamiliar location, through unfamiliar gear, listening on speakers you may never have heard. Then you're expected to hear the difference between those 2 unlike speakers, when the whole set-up is an unknown.
I like knowing the variables first. Being comfortable in that environment. Then, when a new variation is introduced, it's effect is more noticeable. More pronounced. Plus, knowing the variables helps improve 'muscle memory'. This allows one to remember past sounds, and compare them to new, even if in a different time. So, I sometimes wonder why listeners don't perceive a change in sound? If you let yourself really listen, without stress and expectation, it's an easy thing to hear the unknown.
R Swerdlow
Active Member
I agree with the OP when he said:
I've previously posted my own experience with blind listening tests comparing different capacitors in speaker crossovers. It's worth re-posting here.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...b-w-683-crossover.884264/page-2#post-13072484
I'm afraid the whole subject of sound quality due to different caps used in audio crossovers is on shaky ground. Almost as shaky as the claims that different kinds of speaker wires can alter speaker sound quality. Both suffer from widely repeated internet wisdom, with little or no verifiable data to back it up.
I've previously posted my own experience with blind listening tests comparing different capacitors in speaker crossovers. It's worth re-posting here.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...b-w-683-crossover.884264/page-2#post-13072484
LOL