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Wood Glue as Vinyl Cleaner

I haven't measured the glue, I put the LP on my VPI cleaner and let it turn as I glue a spiral. I'd hate to try this if it were turning full speed!

My biggest problem has been edges. I either don't get the glue to the lead in grooves or some goes under the edge. I have now developed a method of using the card used to spread the glue to scrape up the glue edge (bad thumb nails).

The results has been awesome! I even tried a second coat on one LP and it now doesn't have any pops that intrude into the music. It did have a few after the first treatment.

By the way, is a shot supposed to be an ounce, in the US? I ask because a "jigger" is 1.5 Oz and shots look a bit smaller.
 
I think you'd be pissed off if you ordered a shot in a bar and they gave you only one ounce. It could be the traditional size, but these days shots are bigger.
 
Well, I had to glue up 2112 a second time, It sounds even better, might do it one more time and then hit it with the RCM once that shows up from KAB
 
Ok here are my results from my 50/50 Elmers Carpenters Wood Glue/Aleene's Tacky Glue mix.

DISSAPPOINTING

Ive glued about 8 sides with my 50/50 mix, and although the pour, spread, dry time, and peel are all fantastic, I was dumbfounded by the results.

My first 2 sides I finished, sounded awfully crackly and had alot of pops. I questioned whether these records sounded ANY better than before. I finally chocked it up to them being actually damaged beyond cleaning. I was not content with the results as there were too many questions.

A few days later I got the gumption up to glue (4) more sides... These, again, went on and spread great, dried in a reasonable amount of time, and peeled like a dream. On playing, I was again in disbelief that I now had more records that sounded just about the same as they did BEFORE the cleaning! To confirm, I glued up a few more sides and as expected the results were the same. This is a BIG let-down.

My conclusion: Im abandoning both Elmers wood glue, and Aleene's. Individually I was not impressed with their cleaning ability and/or handling compared to TBII, and together, it seems they do absolutely nothing to clean vinyl. The results are the same as if they were not cleaned. This doesnt make ANY sense to me, but the results, after 8+ LP sides tells me it is so.

Ive been glue cleaning for a few YEARS now, and have now decided to use Titebond II and nothing else. I dont have the time to invest in trying other glues only to get sub-par results. The reason we use >wood< glue to clean vinyl is that it works. Im just not convinced that NON-wood glue does what we want it to.

TITEBOND-II is the ticket.
 
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aclimb, id say its probably not neccessary for new vinyl, but sometimes you have to wonder. Id use a zerostat and a discwasher and call it good for new LPs. or a simple RCM would suffice. Using wood glue on new vinyl is probably a waste of wood glue. There may be a few bits the glue would catch but for the most part the only thing DEEP in the grooves of new vinyl is music.
 
I get a lot of used records, some of which are NM. I use glue on all of them, or plan to at some point. I have had some that sound fantastic before turn into jaw-dropping after; and some which didn't really improve at all. I would sure like to get some sort of microscopic (electron scanning I guess) image of what exactly is being removed, like a before and after. And images of what is exactly the culprit when there isn't any improvement.

As I mentioned earlier, I went ALL-OUT just to see if the troublesome noise could in fact be eliminated or not, I used toilet bowl cleaner (with HCl) and then a 1300 psi pressure sprayer held a 1 inch away from the album. There really was no difference, I assume somehow the grooves are damaged.
 
Ok here are my results from my 50/50 Elmers Carpenters Wood Glue/Aleene's Tacky Glue mix.

DISSAPPOINTING

Ive glued about 8 sides with my 50/50 mix, and although the pour, spread, dry time, and peel are all fantastic, I was dumbfounded by the results.

My first 2 sides I finished, sounded awfully crackly and had alot of pops. I questioned whether these records sounded ANY better than before. I finally chocked it up to them being actually damaged beyond cleaning. I was not content with the results as there were too many questions.

A few days later I got the gumption up to glue (4) more sides... These, again, went on and spread great, dried in a reasonable amount of time, and peeled like a dream. On playing, I was again in disbelief that I now had more records that sounded just about the same as they did BEFORE the cleaning! To confirm, I glued up a few more sides and as expected the results were the same. This is a BIG let-down.

My conclusion: Im abandoning both Elmers wood glue, and Aleene's. Individually I was not impressed with their cleaning ability and/or handling compared to TBII, and together, it seems they do absolutely nothing to clean vinyl. The results are the same as if they were not cleaned. This doesnt make ANY sense to me, but the results, after 8+ LP sides tells me it is so.

Ive been glue cleaning for a few YEARS now, and have now decided to use Titebond II and nothing else. I dont have the time to invest in trying other glues only to get sub-par results. The reason we use >wood< glue to clean vinyl is that it works. Im just not convinced that NON-wood glue does what we want it to.

TITEBOND-II is the ticket.

I've had some records that don't respond to glue. I assume they are just damaged and not dirty. Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps it is that the glue I've used isn't strong enough or adherent enough to the dirt.

You are very close to proving that Titebond II is "the ticket," but you aren't there yet. You have these records that sound the same before and after gluing with Elmer's/Aleene's, whatever... NOW you should glue them with Tietebond and see if they are better. THAT will prove it! :yes:

I am eagerly awaiting your results!
 
I was peeling some LPs this past weekend. I could see and feel dirt on the vinyl side. (With my reading glasses on.)
 
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First, I want to thank the father of this thread, Mario, and all of the other people who contributed by sharing their trials and techniques. Thanks for making it possible for me to revive records, much loved but consigned to the shelf because they were all but unplayable. Well, there are no miracles - a record that's truly trashed with groove damage and deep scratches will never come back from the grave - but the glue method will bring back some treasures.

Being somewhat cautious for my first attempts, I tried gluing two of my all-time favorite albums that have languished for decades as they've not been listenable - LiveDead (the first, and greatest, of the live Dead albums), and Maria Muldaur's Sweet Harmony, a wonderful jazz-inflected album that seems to be under the audiophile radar. Both were Rice-Krispied from beginning to end.

So far, three different glues seem to vie for top honors - TiteBond II, Aleene's Tacky, and the clear Elmers gel glues. I used TiteBond for the initial attempts; thanks to this thread, the techniques for use and removal were clear and easily performed. The results were astounding, especially on the Maria Muldaur record, which went from poor to very good. The Gratefull Dead album was successful, but less so, as there was much remaining noise from the many large and small scratches accumulated from careless play.

I subsequently used Aleene's on the Muldaur disk, and some further improvement was heard. While the record is not perfect, it is eminently listenable as the noise is greatly reduced. The posters who have reported a drop in the overall noise floor are, I think, correct - I thought I knew these albums inside out, note for note, yet many fine details were evident after this cleaning that I'd never heard before. More, the music seemed to leap off the record - more dynamic range, more detail, more music.

I should note that I have a VPI 16.5 RCM, but the glues were removing layers of grit and grunge that had been left untouched despite multiple cleanings on the vacuum machine using a variety of the 'best' cleaning fluids. I still think the RCMs are indispensable, especially for larger collections...but clearly there's some dirt that even they cannot remove.

Gluing is an easy and safe way of dealing with records that are otherwise hopeless, so anyone who's nervous about subjecting precious and irreplaceable disks to torture can put his fears to rest. Since doing my first two 'experimental' albums, I've glued many more, all with nice results. Both TiteBond II and Aleene's seem equally effective; the Elmer's gel, however, seems less effective, and it definitely has less grip when peeling the mask, making me think that it's not pulling as much schmutz from the grooves.

While I was glue shopping, I spotted another Aleene's product from their Tacky line, a glue in a spray can. Although I bought the glue - thinking that a spray-on glue would be much easier to apply - I contacted the manufacturer, Duncan Crafts, before trying it. I'm glad I did, as while the other glues are all water-based emulsions, the aerosol is a solvent-based(!!) product. According to the MSDS, it has, among other nasties, hexane, acetone, and propane; I had nightmarish visions of my vinyl dissolving under the chemical assault. :tears:

I'm still playing with differing amounts of glue, varying pressure whilst applying, and looking for other glues that might prove to be even better. Using an old, non-working turntable as a Lazy-Susan while working with the glue is really helpful, and makes it easier to evenly spread the glue and work it into the grooves. I'd love to find a glue that doesn't build up a huge static charge (the Elmer's gel is the least staticky of the bunch so far, but as it doesn't seem to be as effective, the trade-off isn't worthwhile). Even using a Mapleshade Ionoclast - better than a Zerostat, and half the price - I have to wonder if some of the remaining cracklies are from residual static. Perhaps impaling a dryer sheet on the spindle under the record while removing the mask might work?

Anyway, thanks again to all who posted here - this is even better than sliced bread! :D

Cheers, Mark
 
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First, I want to thank the father of this thread, Mario, and all of the other people who contributed by sharing their trials and techniques. Thanks for making it possible for me to revive records, much loved but consigned to the shelf because they were all but unplayable. Well, there are no miracles - a record that's truly trashed with groove damage and deep scratches will never come back from the grave - but the glue method will bring back some treasures.

Great post, Mark. Welcome to AK! Your experiences echo mine.

...but now I've got to find a copy of MM's Sweet Harmony. ;-)
 
Mark,

Great post! I only tried two glues and I'm happy with Titebond II even with the static. I can easily blow off any glue pieces, from where I peeled the edge of the LP, after peeling.

Funny, I too peeled a Maria Muldaur LP, the first, I think. Sadly a few songs were badly distorted but "Midnight At The Oasis" was very good. As was, "Don't You Feel My Thigh."

I have glued MOFI, Nautilus, even my copy of DCC Luck Of The Draw. I am confident that no LP will be harmed by the process.
 
Mark! Excellent post. Youve summed up this thread and the experiences of most of the participants nicely! I would only add that up to (3) gluings are sometimes neccesary for really dirty LPs... (they may LOOK clean before being glued, but some LPs are just really really embedded deeply with contaminants.

Ive had to glue some LPs only once to get them from VG to NM+, while others took up to (3) subsequent gluings to go from VG to NM. Not all will, however, as youve mentioned, some are physically beyond improvement.

My experience over the last 2-3 years has led me to conclude that TBII is the all-around winner... nonetheless, i still keep my eyes open for some undiscovered glue that may yet unseat it from its pedestal! (I recently bought a Gallon of TBII at Home Depot for $16.00... at that price it seems to be unbeatable.)

A year or two ago i picked up a trashed Sinatra 'In The Wee Small Hours' with no jacket or sleeve at GW for 50 cents... it was in horrible looking shape, was literally covered in dust, and definately suffered from numerous physical traumas.... but it was the first issue dark-gray label capital pressing and for that price i couldnt pass it up... (after all, i had a secret weapon)... I got home, did a luke-warm soap and water cleaning... twice perhaps.... carefully dried it, then commenced a series of TBII glue cleanings... up to (4) I believe for this record... when i was done I was confident that the only thing remaining in the grooves was the music... of course the disc had many irrepairable flaws.. scratches... but i played it, and it was surprisingly listenable, considering its condition when bought. I would say it went from a POOR- (and unplayable) to G/G+ (and very playabale)... And what an LP!
 
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A dryer sheet under the LP while peeling will help a lot with the static. In my experience, the dryer sheet has to be directly beneath the section being peeled. One dryer sheet isn't big enough to cover the entire LP. You'll need to use two or move the one as you peel.
 
Great! And now I know what your voice sounds like. You are much better at turning the TT with your hands than I am. I use my 16.5 and just drizzle it on to the LP.

Nice job!
 
Nice job, PM! I've not used a spiral application like that, looks like it spreads more easily and quickly than flower petal designs that I've been squirting onto my records. I'll have to try it.
 
Great video, but IMHO (and only that) too much glue, too much time and too s l o w ........... you are compelling me to make a video... and I think Ill do that right now! Stay tuned!
 
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