EricC
Super Member
Is that yours? It really is too bad Yamaha didn't sell them over here.
Yamaha cdx?
- Thread starter ojom
- Start date
Is that yours? It really is too bad Yamaha didn't sell them over here.
Just noticed this post being quoted. The CDX-993 does not come close to the build quality of the CDX-11** series.
4.7inches
Active Member
:tresbon::yes::yes::yes::yes:
Same goes for my CDX 1050, hours of pleasure from music and even though I have an excellent Accuphase DP70 which is a legend in its own right, the natural sound S Bit DAC from Yamaha is just too good.
Agreed, although CDX-993 is an excellent well built unit in its own right, the 11xx are tanks period. The 993 build is similar to the 1050.
No doubt the CDX-993 is an excellent CD player. In terms of sound quality, DAC advancements are less important than is commonly believed. Yamaha reached a very high level with their DAC's by 1987. Top quality power supplies and discrete components, and chassis build are very important to sound quality. If you have an opportunity to get a CDX-11** series player for a reasonable price grab it.
the-real-mandak
Super Member
Yes with no dough a better player. I have been doing some comparing with the CD-5050 (CDX-1120) and there is no doubt that the 993 out plays the older (tanks), the sound is more full and clean. Especially in the high frequencies does the 993 get closer to reality than the older "monster" player.
Regarding the build quality 11xx vs. 993 it really comes down to the shielded transformers (witch look great), but then again if you look at the PCB the layout of the 993 is better than the 11xx and if you knock on the cabinet it is more dead than the 11xx witch means less vibrations. If bigger knots and bolts mean better build quality, then the 11xx is better (but not much). If the overall design also has something to say, things start to be less clear for the 11xx.
But I will also say like Mark B “if you get a chance to grab a 11xx model, do it”
PS. I have not heard the new CD-S2000 but I do expect it to be better than the 993. Also here a little note can be put down; CDX-10000 (1987), CDX-993 (1998) and CD-S2000 (2007). I am not trying to say the 993 and CD-S2000 is like the 10000, but look at the numbers.
NOTE: The 11xx models are not running Yamaha DAC's but Burr Brown!
NOTE: The 11xx models are not running Yamaha DAC's but Burr Brown!
Is that bad or good?? I have an 1100u that I really like, although it's doing that occasional "spin that cd @ 8 zillion revolutions" thing..." and you hear it winding up like a stock car. Had it looked at, for 2 straight weeks by Nakdoc, and it performed like a champ. Figures.
Is that bad or good?? I have an 1100u that I really like, although it's doing that occasional "spin that cd @ 8 zillion revolutions" thing..." and you hear it winding up like a stock car. Had it looked at, for 2 straight weeks by Nakdoc, and it performed like a champ. Figures.
the-real-mandak
Super Member
At the time it was good since Burr Brown made some of the best D/A converters (and still make good converters, but now owned by Texas Instruments), but later Yamaha started to use there own converters in the CD-P's. The high-end Yamaha CDX players all had Burr Brown up until the CDX-1030 in 1990, it came with Yamaha's new S-Bit DAC, S-Bit became S-Bit+ and later Pro-Bit (witch also is based on S-Bit).
Since the CDX-993 wasn't sold in North America, I'm not able to compare it to the CDX-11xx series (or the CDX-10000). The CDX-993 does look like it's a terrific player.
lorne
Sonic Lizard
IMHO, this thread is an essential place to read in regards to the CDX history — for all those of us who have come to admire. Nevertheless, I am still at the stage of some confusion about some things — and here is one point at large:
My CDX-1020 has <HiBit>. Well, I'm not sure what HiBit is when I come to think about it. I may have looked it up in archives and thereafter lost or poisoned some brain cells. So be it ... and so still I wanna ask, what the hell is <HiBit Direct Out>mean? Does HiBit really refer to the converter? If <Hibit Direct Out> on the push button is 'ON', does that mean that the digital port is not firing into load ... ie 75 Ohms?
I am currently using my Monica II as the DAC on my 1020. I have to say — with admiration — that the difference is not acute. The main and most essential difference is that Monica is not quite as 'digi-shrill' in some places on some recordings. And this is NOT to say that the Yamaha is a late 80's screamer. Not at all. Monica is voiced [IMHO] yet not rolled off. So the end verdict is that bth the CDX and Monica picks out its own respective detail, and it is a toss up in regards to choosing. Considering that the chips on the 1020 preceded Monica [AFAIK] by a good number of years, I am impressed. And all things considered, the CDX may play complicated pieces better — the latter not being Monica's biggest talent. But ... OK-just-fine for a $100-$150 DAC project ... 12 VDC power supply and ya can't go wrong! Monica wins out considering what I am playing. And, I have to say that nothing in respected mid-fi that I've bundled into Monica has come close to the CDX. And, my big late 80's Kenwood studio type CDP that weighs as much as a Chevy small block cannot meet the mark either. All subjective stuff of course, but the subject at hand has to do with the users manual, and I don't possess it.
OK CDX dudes ...please fill me in .... Thanks in advance.
My CDX-1020 has <HiBit>. Well, I'm not sure what HiBit is when I come to think about it. I may have looked it up in archives and thereafter lost or poisoned some brain cells. So be it ... and so still I wanna ask, what the hell is <HiBit Direct Out>mean? Does HiBit really refer to the converter? If <Hibit Direct Out> on the push button is 'ON', does that mean that the digital port is not firing into load ... ie 75 Ohms?
I am currently using my Monica II as the DAC on my 1020. I have to say — with admiration — that the difference is not acute. The main and most essential difference is that Monica is not quite as 'digi-shrill' in some places on some recordings. And this is NOT to say that the Yamaha is a late 80's screamer. Not at all. Monica is voiced [IMHO] yet not rolled off. So the end verdict is that bth the CDX and Monica picks out its own respective detail, and it is a toss up in regards to choosing. Considering that the chips on the 1020 preceded Monica [AFAIK] by a good number of years, I am impressed. And all things considered, the CDX may play complicated pieces better — the latter not being Monica's biggest talent. But ... OK-just-fine for a $100-$150 DAC project ... 12 VDC power supply and ya can't go wrong! Monica wins out considering what I am playing. And, I have to say that nothing in respected mid-fi that I've bundled into Monica has come close to the CDX. And, my big late 80's Kenwood studio type CDP that weighs as much as a Chevy small block cannot meet the mark either. All subjective stuff of course, but the subject at hand has to do with the users manual, and I don't possess it.
OK CDX dudes ...please fill me in .... Thanks in advance.
the-real-mandak
Super Member
Hi-bit is an over sampling and filter technology, designed to drop the noise floor created by the D/A conversion. It used the YM3816 chip and works coupled with the DAC. In simple ways it makes an 8 time over sampling of the digital sampling rate on the CD so 44.1 kHz becomes 352.8 kHz and then applies a 3 way filter. The trick is that the CD in theory only has a maximum dynamic range of 96dB and the Hi-Bit method dumps the noise level to -100db, witch is below the maximum dynamic range and therefore not existent. The sound is therefore clean of conversion noise.
The original method to remove this noise was to transfer the noise up in an area the ear can't hear and then apply a low pass filter, vola the noise is gone. But only to be replaced with a phase problem, it is this phase problem Yamaha is trying to solve with the 3 stage filter method.
In the days all had the over sampling and filters, all calling it differently for marketing purpose. But also a little tiny bit different, witch made the difference in sound. It was all about reducing the conversion noise floor and damaging the phase correctness as little as possible.
The phase problem has always been Yamahas biggest problem, if not done correct the sound picture is not stable. An instrument will wander of in a direction (L/R) instead of staying at the same place all the time (unless it is panned in the mix and of curse has to move); many reviewers don't like this and have given Yamaha less good reviews due to this (read English press), the fact that the instruments sounded more like the real thing was not as important to them.
The original method to remove this noise was to transfer the noise up in an area the ear can't hear and then apply a low pass filter, vola the noise is gone. But only to be replaced with a phase problem, it is this phase problem Yamaha is trying to solve with the 3 stage filter method.
In the days all had the over sampling and filters, all calling it differently for marketing purpose. But also a little tiny bit different, witch made the difference in sound. It was all about reducing the conversion noise floor and damaging the phase correctness as little as possible.
The phase problem has always been Yamahas biggest problem, if not done correct the sound picture is not stable. An instrument will wander of in a direction (L/R) instead of staying at the same place all the time (unless it is panned in the mix and of curse has to move); many reviewers don't like this and have given Yamaha less good reviews due to this (read English press), the fact that the instruments sounded more like the real thing was not as important to them.
lorne
Sonic Lizard
TRM: I admire your comprehensive reply. Very intreresting, and it reminds me of the attempts (largely successful) that were made to turn the cassette tape into an acceptable medium.
If I understand you correctly, I can go on to extrapolate and say this: if I am tapping the digital port on a CDX of this type, I should switch the 'HI-BIT DIRECT OUT' to OFF postion ... right?
If I understand you correctly, I can go on to extrapolate and say this: if I am tapping the digital port on a CDX of this type, I should switch the 'HI-BIT DIRECT OUT' to OFF postion ... right?
the-real-mandak
Super Member
If you use the digital out you get the signal before it reaches the Hi-Bit filter so it does not matter if it is in ON or OFF (according to the block diagram of the CDX-1120/2020).
lorne
Sonic Lizard
Thanks! That makes sense, and it also conforms to my listening. Even as a transort, the CDX is very much better than anything I have used — including the richest one — a Denon 990 SG with a die-cast sled and other details. As a transort, the Denon looks to be the better machine. Perhaps CDX has the better power supply of the two. Regardless, there is a world of difference. THAT is significant to me — the fact that at least some of the difference is coming out even before the filters and DAC.:thmbsp:
There is a Yammy CDX-820 at the local pawn shop for $20. Worth it as a source?
I've had mixed luck with old cd players.
I've had mixed luck with old cd players.
For $20? Go buy it.
the-real-mandak
Super Member
The CDX-820 was a $600 player in 1989, so yes - go grab it.
