Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Bauhausler]

Interest in E'Waving Advents IS heating up a bit....

You know what else is? Blown up solid state power amps. From now on the second time I repair someone's amp I'm going to under-fuse it by 20% so the TO-3's don't act as fuses. I now have a significant pile of them to fix 'in a hurry' (isn't it always?)

I just read through your Advent conversion thread. I was particularly interested in teh differences between the Advent woofers. We just went through a comparison between the metal and Masonite versions with the DQ-20i woofer.

I've been away from home on family business but I expect to get the Advent woofers refoamed in a day or 2. I have both the Masonite and later all-metal to do. I've worked out a plan for the cabinet work that will be easy to follow for future builders. Ruler and pencil work only to get a tight fit on the baffle patch, although it will be somewhat unconventional in terms of technique.

 

[dnewma04]

Yeah. Back during my flirtation with Lowthers, Altec 755s, LE8Ts, etc. this is the kind of thing I'd shake my head over.

3-way with 2 each of Kef B-139, B-110 and Hiquphon dome tweet.

200 hz 4th order LP to B-139s
200 hz 4th order HP to B-110s
2700 hz 2nd order lp to B-110s
2700 hz 2nd order hp to dome tweets

They're quite insensitive and current hungry but after listening to them for a 2 months + I find nothing to actively dislike, and I usually can.

I'll be PM'ing you for some of those boards... I can hard wire the whole thing on Masonite, but it wouldn't be as compact and pro looking as your version. nice work!

Good choice on the Hiq tweeters. Nothing to dislike about them.

 

[Bauhausler]

Good choice on the Hiq tweeters. Nothing to dislike about them.

Until you blow one. I think they're $225/pair if you can get them. Not a hazard here but I'm tempted to splice in a fuse just in case of accidents.

 

[Zilch]

I'm assuming that the hole spacing and component positioning is compatible with the typical Parts Express components that are used with teh various EWave xovr versions?

The two HF comp filters are just a different cap and resistor, no issue there.

I was checking earlier today on the ERSE "I" Core inductors, and all values from 1 mH to 10 mH use the same core, so the design is compatible with different lowpass filters, as well.

Jack and I discussed whether to add provisions for a Zobel, and concluded that could be added outboard, if desired, since it just goes across the woofer leads.

The biamp option is new; we laid it out so that the two filters could be split by simply not installing the jumper and moving one component lead. It doesn't have to be switched, either; biamp mode can be hardwired just with the additional set of input terminals, which then allow selection between modes using external jumpers to bridge the separate high and low inputs.

Anyone building their own crossovers can make similar provisions for biamping, too, of course.... :yes:

 

[Paratima]

I can attest to the quality of Jack's new E'wave boards. I was in contact with him for the Indignia PCB masks and he mentioned the China PC boards would be incoming, so I arrange to get a pair of those, too. AND, just so I have something to use them in, while I was out running 1,000 errands today, I picked up a pair of New Advents (1978, Utilities) in need of re-foaming and some help in the tweets department.

So with an EconoWadvent, an Indignia (love that name) and the ongoing ZLH-17 project, I'd say my idle hours have come to an abrupt halt. This list should keep me going for quite a while.

I'll report in later. I've got to attempt making response curve charts on some KLH's.

Les

 

[Andyman]

Has anybody tried these B&C mylar drivers

B&C

They seem to have promise and I think Zilch has good things to say about the smoothness of mylar...
I'd use them with my LE14s and the 3000 hz crossover, so I don't think the higher (2500 vs 2000 for the 210s) would be much of an issue, although it could result in a bit less midrange.

 

[Richard C.]

I'm joining in too...I've simulated the Pi Four xover...

to the best of my ability with Multisim. It doesn't allow for freq. and dB scales on the bode plotter, but it does work. I've found the xover freq. is ~1300 Hz and the HF compensation cap (.47µF really works in the upper most octave - 10 to 20 kHz). The is similar to what I achieved in my Altec Model xover, but better! I have parts ordered to build 2 pair with Pyle horns and D210Ti's.


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii259/rich86audio/PiFourHF.gif

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii259/rich86audio/PiFourLF.gif

Richard C.

 

[marantzfan]

Hmmmm.....Problem here.

There is very little front baffle space to fit the wave guide there. In order for this not to look totally hacked, I can accomodate maybe 8"w x 5.5"h. Where does that leave me?:scratch2:

 

[Zilch]

Where does that leave me?:scratch2:

Here, perhaps? It's the 8" x 8" JBL PT waveguide:

I see, they moved the woofer up in NLA:

O.K., it gets the 18-Sound elliptical, then, here in KLH-17:

7.8" x 5.9"

http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=179

The "Standard" E'Waveguide WILL fit in the OLA Utility; the Bauhausler's working on that project.

Looks like it MAY fit in the NLA Utility as well, but I don't have one to measure:

With a bit of rework of the plastic bead around the edge of chamfered-front OLA such as mine, first pic, above, it will fit those, too; mine are 12" across, exactly.... :yes:

 

[marantzfan]

Here, perhaps? It's the 8" x 8" JBL PT waveguide:

I see, they moved the woofer up in NLA:

O.K., it gets the 18-Sound elliptical, then, here in KLH-17:

7.8" x 5.9"

http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=179

The "Standard" E'Waveguide WILL fit in the OLA Utility; the Bauhausler's working on that project.

Looks like it MAY fit in the NLA Utility as well, but I don't have one to measure:

With a bit of rework of the plastic bead around the edge of chamfered-front OLA such as mine, first pic, above, it will fit those, too; mine are 12" across, exactly.... :yes:

To get 12" I would have to cut out a section of the bullnose edge...

 

[Zilch]

To get 12" I would have to cut out a section of the bullnose edge....

Undercut it, perhaps?

How much width DO you have, precisely, and what is the height limitation, i.e., what is the distance from the center edge of the woofer frame to the inside top edge?

The is similar to what I achieved in my Altec Model xover, but better! I have parts ordered to build 2 pair with Pyle horns and D210Ti's.

Yours sims pass the Spice test!

Welcome to the E'Wave fray! :thmbsp:

 

[Bauhausler]

"To get 12" I would have to cut out a section of the bullnose edge..."

Or undercut the bullnose edge with a router and slide the edge of the waveguide under laterally. This was described earlier in the thread but I can't find it.

Option 2 is to trim back the edge of the WG rim. Yu might have to re-drill the holes on the edges and overlay some stiff material over it to make up lost rigidity. That's teh way I was going to go until I got the ULAs.

Note on fitting the WG to the ULAs: To get the WG close to the rim of the woofer you have to fill or cover part of the existing tweeter hole. There are elegant ways to do this. See Jack's work for examples. I've thought of several cheap hacks to accomplish the same thing and I'll choose a solution from those.

 

[GordonW]

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AS Series/CS3115.pdf

Ah, OK. The M209, which is, IIRC, pretty much like a 2118H/2119.

That could be cool... since you can recone a 116H (or is it only the 116H-1?) into a 2118H, IIRC...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[ejfud]

Got the crossover boards, thanks Jack, have the compression drivers and wave guides now I need woofers.

I have a pair of Pioneer CS-A31's that may fit the bill. The woofer is a PW-302A alnico 16 ohm driver. The cab has a big port in the bottom and the wave guide will fit in the place of the mid and tweeter. I'll post a picture latter today.

How about modern drivers any good cheap options out there?

 

[djnagle]

I hooked my ESS EWGs up last night and I am still very impressed. I took them out of my system to build up my Jensen Imperials with Edgarhorn mids with JBL 2441/Radian diaphragms, and Heil tweeters. Well there is too much difference between the two speakers, but the ESS EWGs still kick ass.

 

[marantzfan]

Rather then trying to force a square peg through a round hole, I am going to find another speaker to better accomodate the waveguide. I have already ordered the crossover boards from Jack. I will now order the wave guides and the selenium drivers, meanwhile I will be on the lookout for a good ewave candidate..:thmbsp:

 

[Russellc]

Rather then trying to force a square peg through a round hole, I am going to find another speaker to better accomodate the waveguide. I have already ordered the crossover boards from Jack. I will now order the wave guides and the selenium drivers, meanwhile I will be on the lookout for a good ewave candidate..:thmbsp:

The new crossover boards are really nice, thanks once again Jack, you did an excellent job as usual.

Marantzfan, you can still play along ( until you find ideal candidates ) by just running the woofer leads out and placing the E'wave on top.

Cheers,

Russellc

 

[marantzfan]

The new crossover boards are really nice, thanks once again Jack, you did an excellent job as usual.

Marantzfan, you can still play along ( until you find ideal candidates ) by just running the woofer leads out and placing the E'wave on top.

Cheers,

Russellc

I don't think it will take long to find something suitable..

 

[Zilch]

Note on fitting the WG to the ULAs: To get the WG close to the rim of the woofer you have to fill or cover part of the existing tweeter hole.

Have you run the calcs on that? Skywave did it earlier in the thread, and it was not necessary to butt them up close.

I do it on the larger-diameter woofers like LE-14, but have never much worried about the C/C spacing on existing bookshelves....

Rather then trying to force a square peg through a round hole, I am going to find another speaker to better accomodate the waveguide.

I don't think it will take long to find something suitable..

Cool. If anyone wants to E'Wave NLAs, we've sorted through some options, then.... :yes:

How about modern drivers any good cheap options out there?

Several of us are liking the Dayton Classic 12" and 10". ValvTubeHead built with the 10s:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1830465#post1830465

I've hear them and very much like them. We recently ran some calcs in another thread:

 

[Paratima]

Senor Zilch, your question was, I believe, "Will the EconoWaveGuide (JBL) fit NLA Utilities?"
The answer, I'm delighted to say, is YES! We have a cheapie alternative for E'Wave.

I measured the pair that I picked up off CL yesterday ($30), BEFORE I bought them. I got 'em just for this project, because those fried eggs, to my ears at least, are a bit on the harsh side. Could be me, but that's how it is. Love the woofs, or will, after mine get re-foamed.

The baffle is 12-5/8" wide. From the top of the woofer to the top of the baffle is 7-5/8". :thmbsp:

Bauhausler is correct, I think. Shouldn't be a huge problem.