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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Been away for a few days,

Others have mentioned what the strengths and weekness of this design are all about.
But for me the NUMBER ONE factor was and is efficiency, I wanted and I needed that.

I still would like a bit more then the HPM woofers give me, but it's not to bad at all. In
my setup I also get great bass with no wants for a sub, so I guess I can't complain.
(I've got the subs if I want them, but just don't have the need for them here)

For me I wouldn't be looking to be building this with woofer efficiency of 90db or lower,
if that was the case I'd build something different, with a dome tweeter more then likely.

(I see this as a start to a high efficiency system)
Again, this is just one persons personal preference, I see what all the other pluses are
but for me I want that efficiency and dynamics to go with my gear and listening taste.
 
Just thinking out loud, one could build a 3-way here, high efficiency Mid-Bass driver to
mate to the wave, then say a big ol 12, 15, 18 BASS driver upto say 100hz or so in the
same cab, maybe power the big woof with a large amp and the rest with whatever mood
or situation fits your personal style. :) Or just power the whole thing with one amp. Or 3!
 
Kegger said:
Just thinking out loud, one could build a 3-way here, high efficiency Mid-Bass driver to
mate to the wave, then say a big ol 12, 15, 18 BASS driver upto say 100hz or so in the
same cab, maybe power the big woof with a large amp and the rest with whatever mood
or situation fits your personal style. :) Or just power the whole thing with one amp. Or 3!
Click to expand...

I have thought of this as well, and have a pair of JBL 2123H 10 inch midrange drivers. For added efficiency, Wayne's mid horn flat kit interests me greatly.
Would sort of create something similar to his 7 PI, in the same vein as our econowave is similar to his 4 PI. People on that forum have added the midhorn to the 4 PI, as the 7 PI is a corner horn, as not everyone can do the corner thing.

Russellc
 
I did just that the other night. I have the Jensen Imperials, Edgarhorn 350hz salad bowls, and Heil tweeter. I run it through a Behringer CX3400 active crossover. The other night I pulled the Edgarhorns and replace them with the ewave.......Excellent sounding. Not a whole lot difference from the Edgars, but with those I am using the JBL 2441 driver which gives much better detail.
 
3 drivers is a tempting solution, but there are drawbacks. To get the most out of the efficient WG, you'd want a high efficiency midwoofer, which is available from a number of sources. If you build a 3-way in one cabinet, designed to be driven through a 3-way crossover, you want a high sensitivity woofer as well. Now you're talking about a seriously large box to go low with high sensitivity. Made even larger because you have to isolate the midwoofer from the woofer's back wave, essentially one cabinet inside another.
My compromise solution for a 3-driver system would be a sensitive 2-way designed to run from 60 hz up. That could be modestly sized (1.5 cu ft?) and could be used stand alone if necessary. For 3-way service, bandwidth-limit its amplifier with a 100 hz high pass filter. That gives you more power handling as well. From 100 hz down, your choice of subwoofers, powered or passive. Personally, I'm partial to my AR3A cabinets and woofers. They play as loud as I need, look decent and integrate well with the room.
It's the same old problem: Sensitivity/Bandwidth/Size. Pick two.
 
Bauhausler said:
3 drivers is a tempting solution, but there are drawbacks. To get the most out of the efficient WG, you'd want a high efficiency midwoofer, which is available from a number of sources. If you build a 3-way in one cabinet, designed to be driven through a 3-way crossover, you want a high sensitivity woofer as well. Now you're talking about a seriously large box to go low with high sensitivity. Made even larger because you have to isolate the midwoofer from the woofer's back wave, essentially one cabinet inside another.
My compromise solution for a 3-driver system would be a sensitive 2-way designed to run from 60 hz up. That could be modestly sized (1.5 cu ft?) and could be used stand alone if necessary. For 3-way service, bandwidth-limit its amplifier with a 100 hz high pass filter. That gives you more power handling as well. From 100 hz down, your choice of subwoofers, powered or passive. Personally, I'm partial to my AR3A cabinets and woofers. They play as loud as I need, look decent and integrate well with the room.
It's the same old problem: Sensitivity/Bandwidth/Size. Pick two.
Click to expand...


This is why the 3 way modified 4 PI speaker interests me so much. Good bass to 40 hz, maybe more with room response, efficient using JBL 2225H or 2226H, ( also, with waynes alignment its a small box in the "PRO" size, I think 3 cu ft or so?)
efficient 10 inch mid driver, with increased efficiency via the "mid horn", and a compression driver on a wave guide for the highs. Now, reasonable bass, high efficiency for mids and highs as well. In 3 way land, I think Wayne's on to something. 2 way land a swell for that matter!

Russellc:yes:
 
Keg, IMO, if you are going with a three way crossed at 100 hz, might as well simply your life and cabinets and just built a 2 way monitor type speaker using ewave and 10" midrange and use dedicated subwoofers. The chances of good integration compound positively by keeping them separated from the mains.
 
fxxm747 said:
Oops.. sorry 22 by 20 by 28 I get 7.078074 cu. ft???
Click to expand...
O.K., run the two drivers in a box modeling program such as the free downloadable WinISD. I believe you'll find they'll both play low in that volume, but their power handling will be compromised.... :yes:
 
dnewma04 said:
Keg, IMO, if you are going with a three way crossed at 100 hz, might as well simply your life and cabinets and just built a 2 way monitor type speaker using ewave and 10" midrange and use dedicated subwoofers. The chances of good integration compound positively by keeping them separated from the mains.
Click to expand...
I'm a two-way builder, basically, without subwoof augmentation, and that means extended-bass woofers with potentially compromised midrange character. I push smaller woofers for bigger bass, and bigger woofers for good midrange.

I'm certainly pleased that E'Wavers are exploring other options; several have now now built successful systems using the mid/high plus sub approach. In some respects, it's easier, with plenty of advantages, and many advocates with lots of experience designing and building them.... :thmbsp:
 
Zilch said:
"Best" is for you to define, according to your own desires and preferences. By example of their completed projects, E'Wavers have established a workable range for your consideraton, though none have yet built to either extreme.... :thmbsp:
Click to expand...
I may have just secured the low-efficiency award with Goldwood-upgraded KLH-17s and PE mini-waveguides @ 85 dB:

attachment.php

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2292053#post2292053

It'll be interesting to see where Advents come in.... :yes:
 

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Zilch said:
I may have secured the low-efficiency award with Goldwood-upgraded KLH-17s and PE mini-waveguides, 85 dB:
Click to expand...

Here's an idea for you Z...instead of burning off that extra power in a resistor how about wiring it up to a lava lamp or something? You can use a lightbulb as a current limiter for a tweeter, why not a lava lamp? :D

Ray
 
R2 isn't aglow yet, but this one *may* warrant the multiples Wayne advocates, even for "normal" listening.... :D
 
I'm still considering using the Pioneer CS-R300 as near-ideal onhand candidates with their 92db/W woofs. I'll know more when I can hear their woofers full-range when they become available for re-testing. They are presently serving faced-in as a stand for an SX-1980, that should say something about their structural integrity. If they don't suck full-range, it's going to be hard to resist an E-W try.
S.B.
 
I think the Goldwood is a great idea, especially the treatment Zilch has given it for response smoothing. The KLH's sure need help in LF. However, maybe starting with such a balls-to-the-wall tweeter isn't the best plan. See the KLH-17 thread.
 
Pio1980 said:
I'm still considering using the Pioneer CS-R300 as near-ideal onhand candidates with their 92db/W woofs. I'll know more when I can hear their woofers full-range when they become available for re-testing. They are presently serving faced-in as a stand for an SX-1980, that should say something about their structural integrity. If they don't suck full-range, it's going to be hard to resist an E-W try.
Click to expand...
Full-range is not a reliable test, as you'll be hearing whatever breakup mode distortion they produce, as well.

Listen to them with E'Wave's generic lowpass filter in place. :yes:


Paratima said:
I think the Goldwood is a great idea, especially the treatment Zilch has given it for response smoothing. The KLH's sure need help in LF. However, maybe starting with such a balls-to-the-wall tweeter isn't the best plan. See the KLH-17 thread.
Click to expand...
We have a baseline now. If you find a more efficient woofer that'll perform as well or better with those boxes in the same price range, we'll do that, instead.

Compression driver/waveguide HF just has too much going for it not to be using it, even for "pedestrian" upgrades. I've demonstrated that with AR4x, as well:

attachment.php

JBL's mating it with 8", 6.5" and even smaller woofers.... :thmbsp:

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/General/ProductFamily.aspx?FId=63&MId=2
 
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