Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
Russellc
Addicted Member
I've been a little lazy about posting pics of my just finished Ewaves as I've
been too busy listening to them! Well here they are, I still plan on making some grills to cover the LE14A's(they look like white-walls to me). The last 2 months have been a whirlwind of DIY for me as I have built the Ewaves, the 2A3 amp on the cabinet you see as well as the 12B4A linestage to the right of it. I need to complete the Hagerman Bugle phono stage I just received and then I will be focusing on collecting music for a bit.
I am passively biamping with the 2A3 amp on top and a Behringer A500 on the JBL's, both driven by the 12B4a linestage. It sounds reeeeaaaaalllly good!:thmbsp:
Wow! very nice to say the least. I know what you mean about "sounds really good":yes:
Russellc.
bear-hifi
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the cutting measurements…
My design is going to require more than just cutting out a square hole… Just may have to wait until I can get my hands on the lens its self…
Spectrum77
Super Member
No, JA-3056A (NS-1000) are 1cm too small. Could fit a section of ply on baffle exterior- that would put the surface-mounted woofer 4cm from back of baffle.
von.ah
Schultze!
L56 Update
Well, I've been able to do a little more "testing," and I'm beginning to believe that these woofers are not working up to their potential. I set up a laptop to use Audacity and some test tones, and the L56s seem to be rolling off quite steeply below 80 Hz. 50 is pretty weak, and 40 is way down. By comparison, my basement-duty Phase Research Model R speakers (these are transmission line 8" woof, ~2" silk dome tweet) are substantially louder from 70 Hz-down.
Granted, the PR R's are on the floor, and their TL port is down there, but just comparing the different tones on the L56s evidenced quite a roll off.
With some more tests -- including boundary reinforcement and trying the waveguide on one of my KLH 23s -- I'll decide whether I should try refoaming the 118H woofers.
Or look for other 10" replacements.
For the L56's.
Or for the KLH 23s.
More data.
Well, I've been able to do a little more "testing," and I'm beginning to believe that these woofers are not working up to their potential. I set up a laptop to use Audacity and some test tones, and the L56s seem to be rolling off quite steeply below 80 Hz. 50 is pretty weak, and 40 is way down. By comparison, my basement-duty Phase Research Model R speakers (these are transmission line 8" woof, ~2" silk dome tweet) are substantially louder from 70 Hz-down.
Granted, the PR R's are on the floor, and their TL port is down there, but just comparing the different tones on the L56s evidenced quite a roll off.
With some more tests -- including boundary reinforcement and trying the waveguide on one of my KLH 23s -- I'll decide whether I should try refoaming the 118H woofers.
Or look for other 10" replacements.
For the L56's.
Or for the KLH 23s.
More data.
Kegger
R.I.P. 1/12/1966 - 6/1/2017
No, JA-3056A (NS-1000) are 1cm too small. Could fit a section of ply on baffle exterior- that would put the surface-mounted woofer 4cm from back of baffle.
Nice I like the Waveguide box.
Well at least the woofer is smaller so if yu did get ambitous would make it doable like you suggested..........
I don't have any 118Hs, but I do have some 8" 117H, same genre, which are recently refoamed. Tryin' to think what I could put them in for a test, 4301 or L19 cabs around here somewhere, maybe.
Spec sheet says the replacement driver for 118H is 125HR, same as 127H. If 118H is supposed to play like those, you should not be having any bass problem; that's what I installed in KLH-6, I think it was, here, and they kick it good, closed box even....
150741/3963=38.0371
Spectrum77
Super Member
Vaughn- that would have to be the most aesthetically appealling EWG pic yet! Just curious whether you've tried those beauties toed in?
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2446420&postcount=3959
BTW, I don't know what you blokes have to pay for the average pair of LE14s, but here they go for $500+
Yeah mate, but I'm guessing I firstly need a bit of focus, give myself some more concrete goals:Well at least the woofer is smaller so if yu did get ambitous would make it doable like you suggested..........
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2446420&postcount=3959
BTW, I don't know what you blokes have to pay for the average pair of LE14s, but here they go for $500+
von.ah
Schultze!
I don't have any 118Hs, but I do have some 8" 117H, same genre, which are recently refoamed. Tryin' to think what I could put them in for a test, 4301 or L19 cabs around here somewhere, maybe.
Spec sheet says the replacement driver for 118H is 125HR, same as 127H. If 118H is supposed to play like those, you should not be having any bass problem; that's what I installed in KLH-6, I think it was, here, and they kick it good, closed box even....
Right, my WinISD modeling showed 127H working rather well -- certainly not weak in LF.
Decisions, decisions. It's either refoam the 118s, but they still might not be great, or shift direction entirely and go for the KLH 23s. <-- Leaning to the latter.
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Here's my post on hogging out the baffle of a Large Advent for the EWG:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2296101&postcount=3
Non-econowaveguide drivers
I hope this isn't too far off topic.
I have been following the econowave thread for some time and have noticed that you have evaluated a large number of compression drivers. I was hoping you would share a little of your knowledge.
I am considering the following drivers and would like to factor in your opinion and or measured conclusions:
1. BMS 4550
2. B&C DE250
3. Equivalent JBL Drivers or others that should be considered.
I also would like to get your opinion on 1.5" vs. 1"
drivers primarily what they do differently measurably or subjectively.
I am currently using Selenium 210s which sound nice but at times a little too etched or electronic.
I hope this isn't too far off topic.
I have been following the econowave thread for some time and have noticed that you have evaluated a large number of compression drivers. I was hoping you would share a little of your knowledge.
I am considering the following drivers and would like to factor in your opinion and or measured conclusions:
1. BMS 4550
2. B&C DE250
3. Equivalent JBL Drivers or others that should be considered.
I also would like to get your opinion on 1.5" vs. 1"
drivers primarily what they do differently measurably or subjectively.
I am currently using Selenium 210s which sound nice but at times a little too etched or electronic.
dnewma04
The Healer
The first two are considered excellent values and use in quite a few very good speakers. High build quality, high subjective sound quality, etc. JBL fits in with similar attributes, if not subjectively higher on both counts. The price tends to reflect this, as well. I know a number of people in the professional audio field who have all but abandoned the use of JBL compression drivers, not because of performance but cost, and more importantly, lack of distinctly better performance than drivers you mention which can cost significantly less.
Thanks - Have installed my cheap west coast knockoff of the KegPlugz which have reduce the harshness at high volumes. I am looking for something that allows the timbre of the instruments to sound a bit more natural and I have a concern about experimenting with the slightly more expensive Selenium's and finding they don't quite get it. Any thoughts on this one Zilch?
Our intent in developing the EconoWave project was to provide an inexpensive introduction to the character of contemporary loudspeaker design; the Seleniums serve the purpose well, and the result as many E'Wavers have discovered, is a major step up from more familiar loudspeaker fare. It was also our intent that those who found the experience worthy would explore enhanced implementations of the E'Wave concept.
Personally, in initial testing, I heard differences in the sound of D210ti vs. D220ti, and have since preferred and recommended the latter. Others found the D210ti acceptably adequate at this level, and it lowered the admission fee. For minimal cost, D220ti may provide improved performance. As D210ti has apparently been discontinued, it once again becomes the default driver of choice.
The BMS drivers have Mylar diaphragms, which have a smoother sound than titanium, in my experience. They are also a major step up in design and construction quality, and cost, alas, as well. Much of our early work with the E'Wave concept was done with BMS, and several AKers have found them to be an improvement upon Altec and other vintage drivers on our advice relating to other applications. I have not taken a serious look at updating the E'Wave crossover for use with BMS, but I do have another project underway with a fellow AKer presently which will soon require my doing that.
There is a wide range of alternative compression drivers between Selenium and BMS available, and many of them are intriguing, but I just do not have the time to evaluate these for everyone. I am familiar with a range of JBL drivers, but "entry level" with those begins equivalent to BMS, costwise. Again, as we have already seen, crossover modifications are required; none of these are "Plug 'n' Play." We encourage those having the wherewithall for doing so to explore these many alternatives; it's part of the adventure here.
The 1.5" version of the E'Waveguide is higher quality in construction, but 10x the cost. It is also available in different dispersion patterns. Jack and I started with the 100° x 100° version when they were first introduced, and that being the equivalent of 4430's "Butt-cheek" Biradial, remains a favorite for me, personally, despite my recognition that E'Wave's 90° x 50° is arguably the better choice. The available selection of 1.5" drivers to mate with these is limited, but BMS 4555 works quite well. JBL also offers a 1" thread-on throat adapter for use with them. For TOTL E'Wave upgrade performance, it's JBL 2452H-SL mated with the 1.5" PT waveguides, in my view and experience; see Duffinator's JBL DIY project here on AK as example. Others on the LHF are achieving excellent results using JBL 2435HPL beryllium-diaphragm drivers; Jack and I started with the less expensive aluminum-diaphragm version of those neodyniums, 2431H, also currently used in some TOTL JBL consumer product offerings as 435Al.
Good stuff, all of this. Wave ON...! :thmbsp:
Paratima
E'Wavin'
I have seen references to using Quiet-Kote sound dampening spray and even modelling clay on the outside of the waveguides to improve the sound. I can't find any of those posts quickly, however.
There seemed to be some agreement that it did make an improvement, but I don't know if this was ever measured other than by ear.
There seemed to be some agreement that it did make an improvement, but I don't know if this was ever measured other than by ear.
I did the Quiet-Kote and measured it, reported earlier in this thread somewhere. The difference is audible when you thump the waveguide, but not worth the cost. If you want "inert," you install the waveguide in a sand-packed enclosure as described by my good friend B&KMan, a vibration analysis expert over on LHF.... :yes:
Paratima
E'Wavin'
There's the rub. :tongue: