Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
Jack,
I'm slow at this - I just read Wayne's crossover doc last week! I wasn't suggesting Wayne wasn't given credit where it was due, I was just wondering if his crossover doc came into play in all this, and it looks like it did. It looked familiar and got me thinking.... Between this huge thread, and all the info on the LHF and Wayne's Pi Speakers site, I'm learning an awful lot!
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Russellc
Addicted Member
All you need to do is wade through this thread and all its ancillaries and you'll have your answer. do the 101 thing, and you will have learned more about speakers than you could imagine, regardless of how or how not experienced one is. Many of the same questions that were here in the begining are asked over and over as new folks come to this thread. The thread is gigantic, much is friendly fluff that can be passed over, but all the good stuff is in there.:yes:
Russellc
Russellc
Addicted Member
Again, its all in there, including charts, graphs etc. Hint: you'll notice the phase of the HF driver is reversed.
Also, the accoustic "center" of the woofer isnt always where it would appear physically, measurments must be done, and were1
Russellc
Russellc
Addicted Member
No build thread for me yet but I did just purchase the PH612 and D220 from parts express...$107 shipped seems like a great start
Get your crossover parts before they sell out of 1.5 coils again!
Russellc
I read the first 50 pages, twice now.....its hard to get all the specifics down. Ancillaries are hard to follow too at times....very, very tedious but I will find everything.
I agree everything has been asked and I hate asking them again but after a certain amount of time I just break down and ask
I will continue to do the research.
Russellc
Addicted Member
You're on it. Mainly the compensation is very similar to Wayne's, of course his HF crossover is 3rd order electrically while ours is 2nd. The 4PI and the
E'wave are relatives, both are 2-way killers. when I get a little time and a Router, I'm going to cobble some 4Pi cabs to put my extra 2225H drivers in and play with Wayne's version of the crossover with my DE 250 HF drivers W/ H290 and see what they are doing over on the Pi forum. I also intend to build Wayne's mid horn and fit them with a pair of 2123H drivers I have on the shelf. Lots of good reading on the PI forum and LHF too of course!
Russellc
Thanks! I will find the BOM again in this thread so I can buy them.
btw, anyone posting about what woofers they are buying to match with the Econo-wave guide?
Russellc
Addicted Member
I read the first 50 pages, twice now.....its hard to get all the specifics down. Ancillaries are hard to follow too at times....very, very tedious but I will find everything.
I agree everything has been asked and I hate asking them again but after a certain amount of time I just break down and ask
Please do ask, someone will have the answer and others coming to the site will get answers as well. Maybe we need a FAQ section. The first page leads one to a lot, but the ancillaries! This thread has grown to monsterous size, I'm glad I was in on it from the begining, but twice now I have gone back
and reread most of it. so much really good stuff is really hidden in there, its just about impossible to find. I think if I were starting it new right now, I would take notes refering to page numbers about any parts that you find signifigant or confusing, so you sort of have your own table of contenets so to speak.
Cheers,
russellc
Russellc
Addicted Member
For cheap price, several are using the Dayton classic 12 and 15 inch drivers. One of the thread favorites is to find an old clapped out set of old JBLs that have the LE14A drivers, and refoam them. I have personally used JBL 2225H and 2235H with great results, as have several other members.
Basically, you just need a woofer that plays nice up to 1200-1500 hz or so.
Post your finds and someone can comment. Before you know it you'll be building away!
Russellc
I've taken to making my own woofer variants.
JBL M115-8A PA woofer frames (oftentimes found as blown speakers, cheap, in online auctions), reconed with the following parts (available from any speaker reconing shop that gets parts from MWA Speaker Parts Inc.):
Voice coil: 1565-8 (the "standard" coil used in the M115, in an aftermarket recone)
Cone: 451561-8 (Eminence 15" cone, bell shaped, smooth texture)
Spider: CS5745-B or CS5755B or CS-5760B (spider inner hole on any of these will have to be cut out to fit over 2.5" voice coil in speaker, as they are originally made to fit smaller voice coils)
Dustcap: DCF4500 (4.5" felt, lip-up)
When this speaker is built up, the fabric surround should be sealed/coated with Waldom AA-75 damper "dope"... this will maintain flexibility of the surround and damp "bell modes" in the cone, as well.
This combo will give a speaker that's flat up to 1500 Hz. Very high efficiency (like 96dB). I tend to use them in pairs per cabinet, in a 2.5-way alignment... the second woofer is crossed over at around 70-80 Hz, so it ONLY does bass, while the first woofer goes all the way up to meet the E-wave horn in the mids. With two of these in an 8 cubic foot cabinet, tuned to 22 Hz or so, it's flat to 30 Hz, maybe lower, especially in-room.
Yes, I know this is a bit elaborate for most people... but if you're industrious, it makes for an EXTREMELY potent, fast, clean woofer system...
Regards,
Gordon.
Thanks! Im just curious about all the woofer choices.
My final project most likely will use my Lambda TD12s from AEspeakers.com.
I already have them in my HT room in a 3 way with these (Phl1120/Neopro5i) so I know what they can do....they are $260+ each so not really Econo-waveguide priced.
btw, Im so damn confused right now with so much information that I forgot that I do not actually need crossovers. I have DCXs in my house that I can use!
Very nice!! 2 things...Im not that industrious (Not even close) and Im not that smart!
gogofast
Addicted Member
just wanted to vent....
ever since i got the econowave, i've lost interest in other speakers completely! it's been months and months and i've had chances to buy big name speakers for really good prices, but all have been passed. i dont' even look at speakers when i'm browsing on ebay or CL. worst of all, this is my 2nd visit to speaker forum in........i can't even remember....since last year.
i'm gonna cut holes in the baffle and permanently install the ewave inside the boxes.
ever since i got the econowave, i've lost interest in other speakers completely! it's been months and months and i've had chances to buy big name speakers for really good prices, but all have been passed. i dont' even look at speakers when i'm browsing on ebay or CL. worst of all, this is my 2nd visit to speaker forum in........i can't even remember....since last year.
i'm gonna cut holes in the baffle and permanently install the ewave inside the boxes.
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Reading all of the development posts.
FWIW, before I decided to do Ewaves I did take the time to plow through all of the discussion of waveguides, drivers, crossover points, compensation, spacing, woofer characteristics and a dozen other topics. I did some research, did the math, compared to other speaker designs and basically did all of the due diligence you're supposed to do before ordering parts or cutting wood.
I came away convinced that the basic PH612/Selenium/Ewave crossover top end setup was correctly designed. All of the issues had been worked out and accounted for with generally accepted practices. There are no problems tha thave been ignored or papered over. I ended up using the 'classic' Ewave top end to convert a pair of Large Advents. That build thread is referenced on Page 1. It was dead easy and went together exactly as it should have. No surprises or disappointments.
As hobby project build descriptions go, this one is as complete as they come. If I had just ordered the parts as described and thrown it together the results would have been the same as after doing the research and verification. On the other hand I did learn a lot in the process but the result is the same. I encourage anyone who wants to learn a LOT about this technology to follow the development of the thread, but if you want to just build it as designed you're not going to lose any thing in terms of performance. It's as close to plug/play as a project gets.
FWIW, before I decided to do Ewaves I did take the time to plow through all of the discussion of waveguides, drivers, crossover points, compensation, spacing, woofer characteristics and a dozen other topics. I did some research, did the math, compared to other speaker designs and basically did all of the due diligence you're supposed to do before ordering parts or cutting wood.
I came away convinced that the basic PH612/Selenium/Ewave crossover top end setup was correctly designed. All of the issues had been worked out and accounted for with generally accepted practices. There are no problems tha thave been ignored or papered over. I ended up using the 'classic' Ewave top end to convert a pair of Large Advents. That build thread is referenced on Page 1. It was dead easy and went together exactly as it should have. No surprises or disappointments.
As hobby project build descriptions go, this one is as complete as they come. If I had just ordered the parts as described and thrown it together the results would have been the same as after doing the research and verification. On the other hand I did learn a lot in the process but the result is the same. I encourage anyone who wants to learn a LOT about this technology to follow the development of the thread, but if you want to just build it as designed you're not going to lose any thing in terms of performance. It's as close to plug/play as a project gets.
Pio1980
AK Member
Did the measurements include polarized pulse testing to check acoustic polarity and time/phase alignment?
Doing some preliminary experiments with one AR-6, it's x'over, and a JBL 6X6/ D210Ti combo tells me that the WG driver "wants" to be mounted appx'ly on the back of the baffle board to blend the mid's plane with the woof's to bring the midrange "into focus" when auditioned on axis. This could be a deal breaker mounting the 6X6 WG to the B/B, I don't see how the EW x'over could change that.
Doing some preliminary experiments with one AR-6, it's x'over, and a JBL 6X6/ D210Ti combo tells me that the WG driver "wants" to be mounted appx'ly on the back of the baffle board to blend the mid's plane with the woof's to bring the midrange "into focus" when auditioned on axis. This could be a deal breaker mounting the 6X6 WG to the B/B, I don't see how the EW x'over could change that.
Again, its all in there, including charts, graphs etc. Hint: you'll notice the phase of the HF driver is reversed.
Also, the accoustic "center" of the woofer isnt always where it would appear physically, measurments must be done, and were1
Russellc
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jackgiff
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Ross. That is a very nice endorsement for the project. I had lots of fun, learned a lot, and bless Zilch's heart, he was quite instrumental in keeping my spirits from sagging via PM's a couple times. I learned to use an RTA, an electronic crossover, and was introduced to the writings of several noted speaker designers like d'Apollito and Dickason, and watched as Wayne Parham became involved in the thread. Pretty heady stuff for a newbie.
I wish I had my mobile test stand when the development was being done. I can't count the times I carried circuits back into the lab to change parts, or work on new concepts. Or the number of times I took the soldering iron out into the garage to do something.
I recently bought an oscilloscope to complete my rack mount test station, and while looking for a shelf to rack mount it, discovered a Tektronix R453 scope, already rack mounted. Bought it for my offer of $100. Now the station is complete. Can't wait to get to the next test session.
Now all it needs is a sink. :yes:
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