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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Bauhausler said:
On my new OLA conversion I'm angling to get the C-to-C distance down to 7" by back mounting the woofer and overlapping the frames. I just bought 3'4" Baltic birch to make the new baffles. I haven't touched a router in 10 years so the learning curve could be pretty comical.
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I am getting ready to purchase a router for the first time, talk about comical......:yes:

Russellc
 
Russellc said:
The LS35A, I always wanted a pair of those back when mini monitors were first big. Havent heard one in over 10 years!

russellc
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I bought a pair in 1978 and used them for years. Too limited in dynamics, dispersion and volume for any of my systems now. Now they sit in a box and I keep forgetting to lend them to Kegger to listen to. The B110 is one of my favorite midwoofers. I've owned several other speakers that used it (ESS Trans Static I and Linn Isobarik DMS included) and liked them all. I've lashed up a 3-way with the D220Ti, PH612, B110 and Dayton Classic 15" woofer in a Valencia cabinet. That shows promise but there's no packaging that batch of drivers neatly.
 
Bauhausler said:
That just reminded me that I have A25s in the closet as well. I don't have to be listening to these HPM100s that happened to be sitting here when I took the main system apart for a minute.
Actually I've sorta been collecting mini speakers lately. The Control 1s, Minimus 7s, Minimus 77s, some kind of nice Nakamichi 2-ways and most interestingly, Fried Model R's. These are LS3/5A sized cabinets with T27 and B110 in them. I like the B110 but not the T27. The cab is too small to jam a conventional compression driver inside, so I'd love to find a different WG and driver for these. Mind you, that's 9th or 10th on my projects list, but I am curious about that little tweeter thingy Zilch shows on the Minimus in the pic. Quit teasing!

BTW, My PH612 WGs from Pants Excess were delivered today, so they're filling back orders on those now.
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Great news on the wave guides! I may have to order my first non JBL set. No news from JBL pro on that yet. It appears to be identicle in every respect, save the metal threaded insert thingy.

russellc
 
Russellc said:
The LS35A, I always wanted a pair of those back when mini monitors were first big. Havent heard one in over 10 years!

russellc
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I replaced a DQ-10 ensemble with Rogers LS3/5A as a "shoebox" substitute in the mid-late '70s for whatever size room I found myself on that transfer.
They added an exaggerated "etched" overdetailed effect to everything and had no low end to speak of outside of being used as a nearfiield monitor in a small space. I'm a lot more impressed with the AR 2-ways of that period for naturally balanced transparent sound and extended response but was unaware how good those were then, esp for the price. I'd just E-W a pair of AR-4s and never look back if I was getting nostalgic about the LS3/5A, they weren't/aren't that good by todays standards IMO. YMMV
 
I sold a very nice pair of Rogers LS3/5A's that I owned since 1990 to a fellow in Hong Kong for 1700$. They were excellent but not a match for most of today's high end speakers.

Ray

PIO1980:
I agree with your opinion of the LS3/5A's...
 
Pio1980 said:
I replaced a DQ-10 ensemble with Rogers LS3/5A as a "shoebox" substitute in the mid-late '70s for whatever size room I found myself on that transfer.
They added an exaggerated "etched" overdetailed effect to everything and had no low end to speak of outside of being used as a nearfiield monitor in a small space. I'm a lot more impressed with the AR 2-ways of that period for naturally balanced transparent sound and extended response but was unaware how good those were then, esp for the price. I'd just E-W a pair of AR-4s and never look back if I was getting nostalgic about the LS3/5A, they weren't/aren't that good by todays standards IMO. YMMV
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I don't want to start up the perennial LS3/5A argument here, but I agree that unless you're immobilized in a body cast in a closet the speaker has too many compromises.

I have a few AR4s laying around with dead or disconnected tweeters. I've been tempted to Ewave a pair because I like the cabinets but I'm not sure the woofer quality warrants the work and expense. If only the compression drivers weren't $90/pair, but oh well.
I note that Zilch ended up with JBL woofers in his AR4 conversions (IIRC).
My main room is 900 sf and I like to have a full bottom end to the music. This makes the Large Advent about the smallest 2-way that I can convert and use. HPM-100s would work but considering what they bring whole, that's not an economical choice.
I'm looking at these teak Dyna A25s and wondering if a 6" X 6" would work in there. I do like that cabinet and woofer. Someone's probably already done that.
Well, gotta go to the P.O. and see who's trying to send me a Registered Letter from Hong Kong. Could be interesting. Or PCBs.
 
Ray Collins said:
I sold a very nice pair of Rogers LS3/5A's that I owned since 1990 to a fellow in Hong Kong for 1700$. They were excellent but not a match for most of today's high end speakers.

Ray
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Recently a friend was given a mint walnut pair for helping an elderly neighbor move. He blows every speaker up so I wrestled them away from him, sold them on That Auction Site and paid him $1800.

IIRC, in 1978 I paid $475 for my 15 Ohm Rogers pair. Wish I hadn't tossed the box. I used those with a M&K passive sub and that worked well for years of apartment living.
 
The DQ10 is one classic speaker I've never owned. I passed up too many because of size when they were cheap and now they're not. If I found a pair with good cabs & woofers I'd be tempted by an ewave conversion of those as well. Driver spacing would be a compromise.

Actually, now that I look at them, the DQ-10 woofer is right up to within an inch of the upper edge of the cabinet. A PH612 would nestle right up to the frame pretty as you please.

Hmmmmm....

One advantage of that 'conversion' is it would be totally reversible.
 
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Yep, back a number of years ago they were the "stuff". I acquired mine when I took them in a trade against a pair of Conrad Johnson MV50's. Used them in the kitchen and den for a while; can't say that I miss them...

Ray
 
Pio1980 said:
I replaced a DQ-10 ensemble with Rogers LS3/5A as a "shoebox" substitute in the mid-late '70s for whatever size room I found myself on that transfer.
They added an exaggerated "etched" overdetailed effect to everything and had no low end to speak of outside of being used as a nearfiield monitor in a small space. I'm a lot more impressed with the AR 2-ways of that period for naturally balanced transparent sound and extended response but was unaware how good those were then, esp for the price. I'd just E-W a pair of AR-4s and never look back if I was getting nostalgic about the LS3/5A, they weren't/aren't that good by todays standards IMO. YMMV
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Oh I'm familiar with them, note I wanted them "back in the day"....when it came time to lay out the long green, obviously other decisions were made.
Back then, I remember comparing them to Shihanian's "Elf" which was about the same size, with what I thought was a more livable frequency range. Ended up cloning the JM lab Micron, which I am getting ready to compare to Indignia n another thread.

Russellc
 
Ray Collins said:
Yep, back a number of years ago they were the "stuff". I acquired mine when I took them in a trade against a pair of Conrad Johnson MV50's. Used them in the kitchen and den for a while; can't say that I miss them...

Ray
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Especially if you got a pair of MV50s....I'd say you got the better end of that bargain. I'm used to large, 12 -16 inch bass drivers and Pro type efficiency.
I built the Indignia from that thread, and a little readjustment is definately needed. The LS35A was even more bass limited to say the least. Highly thought of by many, nothing wrong with that, but it is wholly opposite from the E'wave in terms of bass and dynamics, and of course size....

russellc
 
Regarding ARs and Ewave, I'd love to do a 3-way ewave with the AR3 cab and woofer, a B110 and a 6X6 ewave. Unfortunately the baffle is just too small for that to work without major butchery and compromises. Would be cool, though. I have a pair of AR3 cabs & woofers with B110 on the baffle and have used them with PH612/D220Ti on top. I REALLY like the sound.
 
Bauhausler said:
The DQ10 is one classic speaker I've never owned. I passed up too many because of size when they were cheap and now they're not. If I found a pair with good cabs & woofers I'd be tempted by an ewave conversion of those as well. Driver spacing would be a compromise.

Actually, now that I look at them, the DQ-10 woofer is right up to within an inch of the upper edge of the cabinet. A PH612 would nestle right up to the frame pretty as you please.

Hmmmmm....

One advantage of that 'conversion' is it would be totally reversible.
Click to expand...

That's one speaker tht hasnt yey been modified here as an E'wave, you could be the first. Never owned any DQs, I can remember looking at a pair, dont remember the numbers, unsually shaped beast up on its own stand. That was a long time ago, dont even remember the cost at the time.

russellc
 
Bauhausler said:
Regarding ARs and Ewave, I'd love to do a 3-way ewave with the AR3 cab and woofer, a B110 and a 6X6 ewave. Unfortunately the baffle is just too small for that to work without major butchery and compromises. Would be cool, though. I have a pair of AR3 cabs & woofers with B110 on the baffle and have used them with PH612/D220Ti on top. I REALLY like the sound.
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I havent ventured into a speaker with three drivers, just 2 ways so far. I am considering doing one of them, utilizing Wayne's mid horn, just temporarely unavailable right now. All in good time!:yes: I've still got to get/build boxes for a pair of JBL 2314H drivers I've had for a while now...

russellc
 
Pio1980 said:
I replaced a DQ-10 ensemble with Rogers LS3/5A as a "shoebox" substitute in the mid-late '70s for whatever size room I found myself on that transfer.
They added an exaggerated "etched" overdetailed effect to everything and had no low end to speak of outside of being used as a nearfiield monitor in a small space. I'm a lot more impressed with the AR 2-ways of that period for naturally balanced transparent sound and extended response but was unaware how good those were then, esp for the price. I'd just E-W a pair of AR-4s and never look back if I was getting nostalgic about the LS3/5A, they weren't/aren't that good by todays standards IMO. YMMV
Click to expand...

Lack of any real low bass, top end extended. Maybe uncolored, maybe fairly flat as well, but with no bass, smaller speakers with reasonable HF extension alway seem etched to me....

Russellc
 
Bauhausler said:
... but I am curious about that little tweeter thingy Zilch shows on the Minimus in the pic. Quit teasing!
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Jack is a little bit curious about that tweeter thingy as well. But Zilch probably won't reveal what it is till he gets all the wrinkles worked out. By that time, we will have forgotten all about it!

It does look purposeful, doesn't it? I don't remember ever seeing a tweet with a heat sink. SWEEEET!
 
"I have a few AR4s laying around with dead or disconnected tweeters. I've been tempted to Ewave a pair because I like the cabinets but I'm not sure the woofer quality warrants the work and expense. If only the compression drivers weren't $90/pair, but oh well."

The stocker woofs are worth the bother IMO, these things overachieve beyond reasonable expectations on the low end and the mids are pretty good. The 6X6 WGs with the E-W XO should put the optimum listening axis nearly straight-on with that WG's combined driver offset. Hmmm-- mebbe think about using the 6X6 on the Advents instead of the 6X12 to bring the offset closer for a more direct optimum acoustical center.
 
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