Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
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Russellc
Addicted Member
Yes in the begining (when I had 2225H installed) I did have the 3-18-08 crossover, which is the <95 db crossover. It worked, but not as well as the > 95 db one did. I think I remember turning it up a little, but the other one definately worked better, with the L-pad more in the middle zone.
Since I've had 2235H installed, I have used the Low frequency portion of JBL 4430 monitor's crossover, and its zobel as well. Seems to work well. While I definately prefered 2225H with all four ports open, with 2235H I go back and forth between 1 and 2 ports closed. Of course I changed the compensation on the crossover back to the <95 db version for 2235H.
Russellc
Russellc
Addicted Member
I think there will be plenty of magic there for you. It will be slightly different than your E'stats however. First, center images will be rock steady and sound stage sweet spot can be as wide or wider (depending on deployment) than the e'stats, and thanks to constant directivity center images hold steady even when way off listening axis, no more head in the vise small sweet spot, and when you stand up the highs dont go away. Also, with E'wave you can acheive dynamics the e'stats can only begin to dream about. Images are fleshed out and full, and big as life. Very transparent!
Like Zilch said, its cheap to try and if you dont like it ( you'll be in a small crowd or by yourself there) you can sell it to someone here. I'm betting it will become a favorite.
Russellc
You want the same cross-sectional area if the vent velocity is to be the same, and the requisite length may also vary. The easiest means to determining equivalency is with a box modeling program such as the free downloadable WinISD.
Russellc
Addicted Member
It means the bass response in that region will be "augmented," a common feature in many "West Coast" designs, though their peak is typically higher and occurs at a lower frequency.
Buy Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook and read up on this stuff.
dnewma04
The Healer
I would agree, as well. However, I did hear a number of reviews at the fest where people were not very enthralled with the ewave sound. Of course, there were more people who did like them.
I do wish there were a pair of econowaves with DE250s and sussed out crossovers on hand to show their real potential.
That's your assignment for next year, of course.... :thmbsp:
Pio1980
AK Member
Dipole speakers are a very different result in spaciality but compromise efficiency and low end. A point source is yet another mix of plusses and minuses. I'd say that the EWs fall into a more-or-less efficient enclosure-based system that is very dependent on the qualities of the woofer & enclosure.
The candidate woofer must already have good (by ear) lower midrange response with sufficient power margin at cross-over, and the offset relationship between the woofer and upper range units is critical for best results using the suggested XO. I think that the 6X6 works best baffle mounted with relatively shallower (IE 12" or smaller) woofers regardless of the baffle area due to the closer offset. The baffle-mounted 6X12 needs to work with much deeper woofers to get the offset closer to right. Incorrect offset results in a wrong "sucked-out" midrange or exaggerated sharpness, depending on whether the xover region is being cancelled and/or or the upper end driver is "leading" the woofer. Woofer leading the tweeter can sound dull and "wrong". A certain amount of speaker tilt or listener vertical listening position offset can correct some driver offset error. This is where having the upper end unit independent of the woofer baffle provides for fine-tuning of the best midrange response by shifting it's relative offset to the woofer. This adjustment can be done by ear or by instrumentation. The closest possible axial spacing of the unit mouths gives the broadest optimal vertical listening "window" once the driver offset is determined and fixed.
The candidate woofer must already have good (by ear) lower midrange response with sufficient power margin at cross-over, and the offset relationship between the woofer and upper range units is critical for best results using the suggested XO. I think that the 6X6 works best baffle mounted with relatively shallower (IE 12" or smaller) woofers regardless of the baffle area due to the closer offset. The baffle-mounted 6X12 needs to work with much deeper woofers to get the offset closer to right. Incorrect offset results in a wrong "sucked-out" midrange or exaggerated sharpness, depending on whether the xover region is being cancelled and/or or the upper end driver is "leading" the woofer. Woofer leading the tweeter can sound dull and "wrong". A certain amount of speaker tilt or listener vertical listening position offset can correct some driver offset error. This is where having the upper end unit independent of the woofer baffle provides for fine-tuning of the best midrange response by shifting it's relative offset to the woofer. This adjustment can be done by ear or by instrumentation. The closest possible axial spacing of the unit mouths gives the broadest optimal vertical listening "window" once the driver offset is determined and fixed.
dnewma04
The Healer
I need to have someone donate some of those 1.5" metal versions with some of those fancy aquaplas'ed 2452s....
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I personally was heard to say that the bass quality was not up to standard, which I attribute to small rooms. I heard the same boom and overhang in vendors' rooms where they were trying to run full range speakers with significant LF output. The lucky vendors were the ones with mini speakers whose LF was assisted by the room making them sound big and full out of small cabinets.
I'm partial to the ewave top end as an alternative to conventional dome and cone tweeters and I evaluate it on that basis. The basic D220Ti/PH612 setup is not the last word in fidelity but it's a large fraction of the performance for a small fraction of TOTL component cost.
The Econo territory here is well trodden enough that basic repeat questions are being answered for new builders for the nth time and the thread is winding around into its 4th or 5th lap. Econovariations with more stringent goals and higher specification components are of interest to me personally after I finish 2 or possibly 3 more pair builds of the basic ones.
BWAhahaha!I need to have someone donate some of those 1.5" metal versions with some of those fancy aquaplas'ed 2452s....
Shall I throw in some H9800s as well...? :lmao:
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
PT-B99HF-1 on hand now
Thanks to one of teh Dans I have a pair of the JBL PT-B99HF-1 6" X 6" 90 X 90 WGs on hand. I've determined that they will fit on the baffle of an LS3/5A sized speaker like my Fried R's with a B110 midwoofer.
Oh, yes I would too.
I see that JBL specifies a 2400 hz xovr for this unit when used in the AC16 speaker. I can't find a spec sheet for it, though. Has anyone (*cough* Zilch *cough*) done any measurements on this?
I'd like to acknowledge here that I have a WT3 woofer tester and Behringer ECM8000 measurement mic that have not been out of the box to go with my DEQ2496, so I admit I'm lazy.
Thanks to one of teh Dans I have a pair of the JBL PT-B99HF-1 6" X 6" 90 X 90 WGs on hand. I've determined that they will fit on the baffle of an LS3/5A sized speaker like my Fried R's with a B110 midwoofer.
Oh, yes I would too.
I see that JBL specifies a 2400 hz xovr for this unit when used in the AC16 speaker. I can't find a spec sheet for it, though. Has anyone (*cough* Zilch *cough*) done any measurements on this?
I'd like to acknowledge here that I have a WT3 woofer tester and Behringer ECM8000 measurement mic that have not been out of the box to go with my DEQ2496, so I admit I'm lazy.
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
And what color magic flying pony would you like to deliver them?
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2587650#post2587650
Set up your RTA, Bauhausler; there's plenty good fun yer missing here.... :yes:
Pio1980
AK Member
I have provisionally E-W'ed one of the Pioneer CS-R300 "Baby JBLs" and can say that this is a definite improvement over the stock set-up with the little horn-loaded bullet tweeter. It is however not a total slam dunk as was the trial of the AR-6 due to the AR's woofer having a better more transparent and natural midrange response. The Pioneer woofer is not a particularly great midrange unit in spite of the mfgrs apparent trust in it, judging from the original xo point of ca 4.2kc and relatively flat measured freq response.
This does however elevate it from a very well-made and well-finished inoffensive noisy box to something tolerable at worst and very usable, even enjoyable if not a prime example of accuracy.
This does however elevate it from a very well-made and well-finished inoffensive noisy box to something tolerable at worst and very usable, even enjoyable if not a prime example of accuracy.
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Spectrum77
Super Member
Cheers, Russell. That'll do, providing I don't run out of HF. Want to be able to hear the pea-anna on the evaluation record.
That's the advantage of living in the US vs Japan. However, I do have the unobtanium TOTL Japanese dream machines pretty well wrapped up.