Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Zilch]

With the driver and waveguide side-by-side, interference between them will limit the effective horizontal beamwidth, as would be the case with any multi-way similarly oriented.

Is there, or can there be, a sub in the system? If so, build a mini-E'Wave sub/satellite system. That would appear to be what the better half desires.... :yes:

 

[testwork]

Hmm, that wouldn't be good.

There will not be any floor mounted subwoofer. But I am trying to push them towards an infinite baffle subwoofer system. So in that case, I think 80hz is about what I might cross that over at, though I have not heard an IB setup. But IMO 80hz and above is too localized a sound for my tastes.

So yes, a mini-wave would be cool when used with the IB. And may be the only option, since you have struck down my cool side-by-side idea.

Any suggestions? I think I remember you mentioned in a post several pages back that you were working on a min-E-wave system.
Like that? "Min-eWave". hahah I just made that up

 

[Zilch]

Any suggestions? I think I remember you mentioned in a post several pages back that you were working on a min-E-wave system.

You recall correctly. I'm packing this system into Indignia cabinets:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC16-WH.pdf

I'm guessing the Advents won't be coming home.

There's plenty more E'Waves to build, of course. :thmbsp:

Here's the data I promised today:

Suggestion: Try the JBL filter in the link above.

Suggestion #2: Stick a tank filter (that one, maybe,) into the standard E'Wave circuit @ J3A, B.

Yes, the threads in PH612 are tight. Maybe they have a bottoming tap at the shop? It's not a common size, but I do have the die....

 

[Bauhausler]

The tank circuit is .06mh and 4.3uf. Using the formula 1/(6.28 * sqrt(LC)) = Fc, the filter's center frequency is 9900 hz, which does not address the 2K - 5K bump that you find. I have to assume that the whole AC16 HP circuit would be required to get the flattest response. To get the voltage drive for the crossover circuit I'd have to write a spreadsheet to solve for the impedances of the components and plot for different frequencies. Note the very small .68 uf first cap in the HP circuit. They must be using that to tame the bump at the lower end of the HP response with an initial first-order type rolloff. .68uf is 58 Ohms at 4K.

 

[Zilch]

To get the voltage drive for the crossover circuit I'd have to write a spreadsheet to solve for the impedances of the components and plot for different frequencies.

Probably easier to just build it and fire up the RTA.... :thmbsp:

 

[testwork]

You recall correctly. I'm packing this system into Indignia cabinets:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC16-WH.pdf

That looks like a pretty nice, expensive speaker. I can't seem to find a going price on the midrange driver though.

 

[Zilch]

That looks like a pretty nice, expensive speaker. I can't seem to find a going price on the midrange driver though.

Woofers and compression drivers were each $80 as I recall, but resourceful shopping'll get 'em for less. Left, here, on PE 0.38 cuft baffle:

That's AC15 in 0.25 cuft on the right.

Don't know what they sound like yet....

 

[Maxdd]

No one responded to my post awhile back about converting round to rectangular ports so I figured WTF...Why not take the chance, plus I'm impatient and way too curious to not try. After all this is DIY!

My Econowaves have been playing for a few weeks now and I've been totally loving them. They kick ass as my front theater speakers. Voice tracks are crystal clear, explosions are room shaking, and I no longer need to use my subs.

They use the standard crossover with the 12" Dayton classics. 3/4" baltic birch ply with oak braces. Powered by a DIYtube ST-35.

Thanks to everyone for posting about their experiences and to Dr Beaker for selling me his extra pair of D220 drivers when PE was sold out :thmbsp:

Sorry for the poo-ish cell phone quality pics.

Maxdd

 

[Zilch]

No one responded to my post awhile back about converting round to rectangular ports so I figured WTF...Why not take the chance, plus I'm impatient and way too curious to not try. After all this is DIY!

I musta been asleep at the wheel; you KNOW I like to crank out them numbers!

You are "Official E'Waver #56" with your excellent Dayton Classic 12" build:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2260584#post2260584

 

[Bauhausler]

Woofers and compression drivers were each $80 as I recall, but resourceful shopping'll get 'em for less. Left, here, on PE 0.38 cuft baffle:

That's AC15 in 0.25 cuft on the right.

Don't know what they sound like yet....

I'm definitely going to do a build with the 6" WGs and 2414H drivers. I'm on teh fence about what midwoofers to use. I'll be building this set as a 4-cabinet 3-way system, so the midwoofer only needs to go to 150 hz or so. Is there a comparison of available midwoofers anywhere? I've been reading the Indignia thread and haven't found that info yet.
I have a pair of used Vifa M13SG-09 that might work.

 

[djnagle]

No one responded to my post awhile back about converting round to rectangular ports so I figured WTF...Why not take the chance, plus I'm impatient and way too curious to not try. After all this is DIY!

My Econowaves have been playing for a few weeks now and I've been totally loving them. They kick ass as my front theater speakers. Voice tracks are crystal clear, explosions are room shaking, and I no longer need to use my subs.

They use the standard crossover with the 12" Dayton classics. 3/4" baltic birch ply with oak braces. Powered by a DIYtube ST-35.

Thanks to everyone for posting about their experiences and to Dr Beaker for selling me his extra pair of D220 drivers when PE was sold out :thmbsp:

Sorry for the poo-ish cell phone quality pics.

Maxdd

Great job. Those look very cool. What size cab??? I really like the Dayton 12" Classic.

 

[kevinp]

Hey all; first poster here!
Couple of questions re this cool EWave build.
Does the mini-waveguide use the same crossover?
Has anyone built/are there any downsides to building an MTM?
If I do build an MTM, which waveguide would work better? I'm guessing the regular one with more limited vertical dispersion?

Thanks!!

 

[Zilch]

Hey all; first poster here!
Couple of questions re this cool EWave build.
Does the mini-waveguide use the same crossover?
Has anyone built/are there any downsides to building an MTM?
If I do build an MTM, which waveguide would work better? I'm guessing the regular one with more limited vertical dispersion?

Hi, Kevin, and welcome to AudioKarma and EconoWave.

No downsides to MTM, but different component values in the lowpass filter if you use 8-Ohm drivers wired in parallel. The 8" E'Waveguide is also 90° x 50°, so it depends somewhat on your woofer diameter which to use.... :yes:

 

[kevinp]

Hi, Kevin, and welcome to AudioKarma and EconoWave.

No downsides to MTM, but different component values in the lowpass filter if you use 8-Ohm drivers wired in parallel. The 8" E'Waveguide is also 90° x 50°, so it depends somewhat on your woofer diameter which to use.... :yes:

Thanks for the reply Zilch. I must've misread, I thought that smaller wg was 90 x 90
thats what I get for not double-checking....
Was thinking a smaller MTM with Eminance Beta 8A's could be pretty cool. :thmbsp:


Hey - just checked that summary post #228 and it actually does say 90 x 90, so at least I'm not losing my mind (arguable....)

 

[Zilch]

Thanks for the reply Zilch. I must've misread, I thought that smaller wg was 90 x 90
thats what I get for not double-checking....
Was thinking a smaller MTM with Eminance Beta 8A's could be pretty cool. :thmbsp:

You are correct regarding the 6" waveguide.

The 8" is 90° x 50°....

 

[kevinp]

You are correct regarding the 6" waveguide.

The 8" is 90° x 50°....

Thanks, can I bug you once more for info on the 8"? I don't see any reference or part numbers, although I haven't read this entire thread...

Thanks and I appreciate the replies on a slow Sunday! Sitting at work daydreaming here can be dangerous to my wallet....

 

[Zilch]

Thanks and I appreciate the replies on a slow Sunday! Sitting at work daydreaming here can be dangerous to my wallet....

Part of the fun of E'Wave is you can have a pair of all three of them for the huge sum of $60 and explore their properties up close and personal. The 8" variant costs a princely $14 each:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC1895-WH.pdf

 

[kevinp]

Explore their properties huh. Well, I haven't invested in measuring equipment yet, so about all I could do with them is admire the pretty shapes and maybe change my oil...

I am very excited about the prospect of the 8" waveguide between a pair of pro 8"s though!

 

[testwork]

and maybe change my oil...

I hadn't thought of that... it would definitely double as a most excellent funnel!

 

[Bauhausler]

Well, here's an idea for a mini ewave

This is a Klipsch SB-1 cabinet, slightly modified. The WG is the JBL 6" X 6". The midwoofer is a Kef B110 SP1057. This is as close as it's possible to get two drivers without interference.
The idea would be to run the midwoofer down to about 150 - 200 hz, then have the bass picked up by a big sub cabinet (one per channel).

The cabinet nets out at 5L volume. This is a recommended volume for the B110 when used as a midwoofer. The cabinet is ported out the back but that's easily dealt with.

The real challenge here is working out a crossover to match these drivers and achieve flat response. Both appear to need a notch filter, and the crossover region will probably be high order to keep both drivers operating in regions where they work well.

Whether I actually build this soon depends on when my re-veneered Kef 103/3 cabinets get back.