Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Plitron]

Zilch, what do the pictures that you post of the graphs or charts mean?
Are they scope pictures or something?

 

[Zilch]

Zilch, what do the pictures that you post of the graphs or charts mean? Are they scope pictures or something?

They are the actual frequency responses of the device under test taken using a measurement microphone.

It's time you bought Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook.

Here are the first EconoWave stage monitors my friend John built nearly two years ago:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18577

John was a speaker builder for Hard Truckers:

http://www.ahlbergfuneralchapel.com/page.php?page=obit&id=471

Wiredbecker and I picked up the parts today, so we'll be finishing the second pair for him....

310046/6460=47.9947​

 

[Plitron]

I am sorry for your loss Zilch.

I will get the book.

 

[MartinQ]

Explore their properties huh. Well, I haven't invested in measuring equipment yet, so about all I could do with them is admire the pretty shapes and maybe change my oil...

I am very excited about the prospect of the 8" waveguide between a pair of pro 8"s though!

Hey Kevin, I had almost the exact same idea! But, after running the numbers and searching / reading ... it seems like a regular 12" two-way would likely be a better trade off. Of course to be really sure, you should build both and come back with all the results! :]


A Delta Pro-12a costs almost the same as two Beta-8a but will have better bass output with the same sized box. The Pro drivers are rebuildable (recone kits) and a 12" will extend the horizontal directivity of the speaker lower than an 8" can.

I would say the two-8" MTM could be a better option when:

- compared to a single 10" or 8".
- a narrower cabinet is desired.
- a narrow vertical response is required (larger audience, further away).
- you realize that two woofers straddling a wave guide just looks too cool to deny.

For home / general use, I would opt for the 12". And if you want to save a few dollars you can skip the Pro version too.

 

[Maxdd]

Thanks DJnagle!

The box was about 4cu.ft. before adding braces, drivers, and acoustic foam.
I wrote about the port in post 6074
I'm still not sure if round and rectangular ports of the same volume sound the same.
They're definitely BIG, and sound much better then they should for the cost and time to build them.

Maxdd

 

[Sir.Byrd]

Zlich, would a single original waveguide plus Selenium 220 drivers work in an ewave with 25 4" woofers as the woofers rather than a single larger?

 

[Zilch]

I would say the two-8" MTM could be a better option when:

- compared to a single 10" or 8".
- a narrower cabinet is desired.
- a narrow vertical response is required (larger audience, further away).
- you realize that two woofers straddling a wave guide just looks too cool to deny.

For home / general use, I would opt for the 12". And if you want to save a few dollars you can skip the Pro version too.

TWW works, too:

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3&docid=1084

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC2895-WH.pdf

We're not plumbing the depths of extended bass here, but for HT mains in a modest package, it certainly has max SPL knocked. Here, again, one woofer is run as a "helper," a configuration we've discussed many times in this thread.... :thmbsp:

Zlich, would a single original waveguide plus Selenium 220 drivers work in an ewave with 25 4" woofers as the woofers rather than a single larger?

Ray, Dave, Gordon, Ken, or somebody who's tried that kinda stuff is gonna have to advise. It's all I can do to get two woofers working together.... :tongue:

 

[Sir.Byrd]

TWW works, too:

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3&docid=1084

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC2895-WH.pdf

We're not plumbing the depths of extended bass here, but for HT mains in a modest package, it certainly has max SPL knocked. Here, again, one woofer is run as a "helper," a configuration we've discussed many times in this thread.... :thmbsp:

Ray, Dave, Gordon, Ken, or somebody who's tried that kinda stuff is gonna have to advise. It's all I can do to get two woofers working together.... :tongue:

Just exploring my options incase my 25 pair minimus 7 line source doesn't sound good.

 

[Zilch]

Just exploring my options incase my 25 pair minimus 7 line source doesn't sound good.

I'm confident a single E'Wave will be able to keep up, yes....

 

[Sir.Byrd]

I'm confident a single E'Wave will be able to keep up, yes....

I'm thinking that a 8' 4" line array of woofers and a centered E'Wave would at least sound interesting... if not good.

 

[Zilch]

I'm thinking that a 8' 4" line array of woofers and a centered E'Wave would at least sound interesting... if not good.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2274539#post2274539

 

[kevinp]

Hey Kevin, I had almost the exact same idea! But, after running the numbers and searching / reading ... it seems like a regular 12" two-way would likely be a better trade off. Of course to be really sure, you should build both and come back with all the results! :]


A Delta Pro-12a costs almost the same as two Beta-8a but will have better bass output with the same sized box. The Pro drivers are rebuildable (recone kits) and a 12" will extend the horizontal directivity of the speaker lower than an 8" can.

I would say the two-8" MTM could be a better option when:

- compared to a single 10" or 8".
- a narrower cabinet is desired.
- a narrow vertical response is required (larger audience, further away).
- you realize that two woofers straddling a wave guide just looks too cool to deny.

For home / general use, I would opt for the 12". And if you want to save a few dollars you can skip the Pro version too.

Hi Martin,

Yes, I admit even though I'm 40 I'm not a big fan of the old school wide baffle/large woofer look. Multi woofers on a narrow baffle is more my style, and there is no denying the coolness of two woofers straddling a waveguide

 

[kevinp]

TWW works, too:

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3&docid=1084

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC2895-WH.pdf

We're not plumbing the depths of extended bass here, but for HT mains in a modest package, it certainly has max SPL knocked. Here, again, one woofer is run as a "helper," a configuration we've discussed many times in this thread.... :thmbsp:

Ray, Dave, Gordon, Ken, or somebody who's tried that kinda stuff is gonna have to advise. It's all I can do to get two woofers working together.... :tongue:

I'd love to do a TWW, but that's more $$ for the bottom woofer and the big inductor it'll likely need for the 1/2 way. I don't know how Klipsch gets away with TWWW 2 ways

 

[Russellc]

This is a Klipsch SB-1 cabinet, slightly modified. The WG is the JBL 6" X 6". The midwoofer is a Kef B110 SP1057. This is as close as it's possible to get two drivers without interference.
The idea would be to run the midwoofer down to about 150 - 200 hz, then have the bass picked up by a big sub cabinet (one per channel).

The cabinet nets out at 5L volume. This is a recommended volume for the B110 when used as a midwoofer. The cabinet is ported out the back but that's easily dealt with.

The real challenge here is working out a crossover to match these drivers and achieve flat response. Both appear to need a notch filter, and the crossover region will probably be high order to keep both drivers operating in regions where they work well.

Whether I actually build this soon depends on when my re-veneered Kef 103/3 cabinets get back.

even the 6x6 looks like it takes up a good portion of the baffle real estate!:yes:

russellc

 

[Russellc]

They are the actual frequency responses of the device under test taken using a measurement microphone.

It's time you bought Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook.

Here are the first EconoWave stage monitors my friend John built nearly two years ago:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18577

John was a speaker builder for Hard Truckers:

http://www.ahlbergfuneralchapel.com/page.php?page=obit&id=471

Wiredbecker and I picked up the parts today, so we'll be finishing the second pair for him....

310046/6460=47.9947​

Zilch, is that Johnaec over on LH forum?

Russellc

 

[GordonW]

A Delta Pro-12a costs almost the same as two Beta-8a but will have better bass output with the same sized box. The Pro drivers are rebuildable (recone kits) and a 12" will extend the horizontal directivity of the speaker lower than an 8" can.

The Beta 8A is also reconeable. It's just that you have to get kits elsewhere than straight from Eminence. That said, "factory spec" (even down to having the same numbers stamped on the cones) parts can be gotten. We do it all the time... any speaker service shop that orders from MWA Speaker Parts can source the right stuff (MWA is trade-only, though, so you have to go through a shop)...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[GordonW]

A friend is interested in having me build them an eWave speaker system. They have 12' ceilings. The front wall has a hallway on both sides. So there is absolutely no where to place speakers on the left or right of the room. And he'll never be able to have a center speaker either, due fireplace and a built-in taking up the entire lower portion of the front wall.

Yes, buying the house was his Wife's idea.

So the only realistic place to have the speakers is high on the walls, next to the ceiling. The room is 12' tall by 13' wide.
I suggested the eWave because this speaker sounds good, no matter where you're sitting in the room.

His wife will want speakers as small as possible.

I was thinking of the JBL 8x8 waveguides matched with Dayton 10" classic drivers. I'd have them mounted side by side, so the speaker enclosure is short & wide, rather than tall and narrow. Or something like 11" tall, 19" wide. Would that work?
Would it require re-doing the eWave crossover?

Sideways MTM E-wave with dual 8" woofers (Dayton?) and the small Ewave flare (6x6 or 8x8)? Even sideways, it might work well. 8" woofers are pretty omni-directional up to 1KHz... even a pair of them should work reasonably well. A bit of lobing, but probably not bad at the distances they'll be listening to them from (you can't get huge off-axis angles)...

It'd require the cabinet be wide (like 24-25" or so), but it could easily be done 10" tall. And the Dayton 8", in 1 cubic feet each, can make some decent bass...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[ROSSO]

Part of the fun of E'Wave is you can have a pair of all three of them for the huge sum of $60 and explore their properties up close and personal. The 8" variant costs a princely $14 each:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC1895-WH.pdf

What about the JBL 365124-001? 8" waveguide, 120x60, $14 ea at JBL Pro. Used in the AC18/26. Anybody tried a test drive on these? Seems like all the other JBL WG's in the catalog have been tried at least once...

 

[djnagle]

I've been thinking about doing a small waveguide project out of these. I would make new baffle boards as the holes are already cut in these flat packs and I would use the two woofers recommended as well as a premanufactured eWave crossover board. What do you'al think? Maybe veneered in Zebrawood?

http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=Tritrix

 

[Zilch]

I'd love to do a TWW, but that's more $$ for the bottom woofer and the big inductor it'll likely need for the 1/2 way. I don't know how Klipsch gets away with TWWW 2 ways

16-Ohm woofers and 13 mH get it done op. cit.. It's two of the same woofer.

even the 6x6 looks like it takes up a good portion of the baffle real estate! :yes:

I'd be using the AC15 waveguide tweeter on that one.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC15-WH.pdf

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2777710#post2777710

Zilch, is that Johnaec over on LH forum?

Yes, the link shows how he built 'em. We also have an AK E'Waver who built beautiful mains using that combo:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2191142#post2191142

What about the JBL 365124-001? 8" waveguide, 120x60, $14 ea at JBL Pro. Used in the AC18/26. Anybody tried a test drive on these? Seems like all the other JBL WG's in the catalog have been tried at least once...

Nope. You can be the first.

I've been thinking about doing a small waveguide project out of these. I would make new baffle boards as the holes are already cut in these flat packs and I would use the two woofers recommended as well as a premanufactured eWave crossover board. What do you'al think? Maybe veneered in Zebrawood?

http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=Tritrix

$98 a pair w/free USA shipping, I'd call those a "Slam dunk:"

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-701

I haven't run the numbers, but it seems like some of the other dual-woof designs we're discussing here will go in the tall PE pre-built cabs, too.... :guitar:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC25-WH.pdf

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC26-WH.pdf

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC2895-WH.pdf