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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Kegger said:
OH GREAT JUST WHAT I NEED ANOTHER PROJECT! But what has transprired here has me intrigued!

Couple questions about a few drivers if you don't mind and if anyone knows about them, please.

First woofers, I've got 2 different 10"s I'd be pondering, one is from the JBl L56, the other one is
from the pioneer HPM 60? (a pair of each)

HF drivers, I imagine I'll eventually get the seleniums but I do have a pair from the klipsch RF7 an
the eminence PSD-2002 compression drivers. (a pair of each)

I may have a pair (got a check there shape) of the 12" drivers from the HPM 100 as well here to.

Anyways nice looking outcome I see here in many different configs, Congrats!
Click to expand...

About the only requirement is that they play nice up a little above 1000hz or so.......I'd try it, if it doesnt work well enough there are lots of candidates that will fit in a 10 or 12 inch driver hole!

This is a very worthwhile project, whose results are extremely sucessful, more so than any others I've been associated with.

However, score 1 for the A7s Zilch, I've been complaining about the A7s sounding less clear and more bright than the econowave, last night I removed the 12ax7a that was in the front end of my amp and replaced it and tried with 2 others, Raytheon 5751 and also Tungsgram 12ax7a. both improved the sound in the areas I had been complaining about, seems the Telefunken 12ax7a ridge plates I had in there were the problem. still not up to the econowaves over all, but narrowed the gap somewhat!

Kegger, go for it. This projects "gospel" needs to spread further through AK.
Not only is it an affordable project, it is a sensational speaker worth putting together. More here should try it. Rarely do you bump into something that is both really affordable, and truely top notch result as well, not just good for the money, but really, really nice.

Good luck,

Russellc
 
CC econo crossover query:

Thanks for the CC version. I am preparing to order parts. If I want to duplicat the 4-5-08 version on post #181, looks like all that would change from the CC version you showed is in the compensation, two 3.0 uf caps used, ( instead of single 1.5 uf) ? along with resistor changes to 15 ohm and 24 ohm? If so, I'll order those up to.

russellc
 
Russellc said:
Thanks for the CC version. I am preparing to order parts. If I want to duplicat the 4-5-08 version on post #181, looks like all that would change from the CC version you showed is in the compensation, two 3.0 uf caps used, ( instead of single 1.5 uf) ? along with resistor changes to 15 ohm and 24 ohm? If so, I'll order those up too.
Click to expand...
Yup.

Look out, now, you're in danger of becoming AK's CC Guru.... ;)

Kegger said:
OH GREAT JUST WHAT I NEED ANOTHER PROJECT! But what has transprired here has me intrigued!

Couple questions about a few drivers if you don't mind and if anyone knows about them, please.

First woofers, I've got 2 different 10"s I'd be pondering, one is from the JBl L56, the other one is from the pioneer HPM 60? (a pair of each)
Click to expand...
Several members have built with 10" woofers successfully. The key with different ones is to figure out what size box and alignment (closed, vented, and tuning) will give the best bass response with each. Start with something similar to how they were originally used.

Kegger said:
HF drivers, I imagine I'll eventually get the seleniums but I do have a pair from the klipsch RF7 an
the eminence PSD-2002 compression drivers. (a pair of each)
Click to expand...
I don't know about the Klipsch. Unless they're aluminum or titanium, they may not have the requisite HF extension to exploit. Another member has built with the Eminence successfully.

Kegger said:
I may have a pair (got a check their shape) of the 12" drivers from the HPM 100 as well here too.
Click to expand...
If I had a pair of those to work with, I'd sure be trying them, yes.... :thmbsp:

dc270 said:
As a thought, (I just seem to have way to many) Can the waveguide be used in an M/WG/M arrangement? I ask because of the four CV cast frame 10" woofers laying around recently refoamed, looking for suitable homes. Tall thin cabs to get up to sitting ear level, etc. Again your open thoughts are apreciated. Evolution, ain't it great!
DC
Click to expand...
I've never been an MTM fan.

I've built them, they sound O.K., but the woofer above just adds unnecessary height, in my view; the waveguide already controls the vertical dispersion, as Wayne discussed earlier here.

I believe you can achieve a better result using the dual woofers below, running in 2.5 mode, i.e., the bottom one being a "helper," doing VLF only.

Have a look at my towers for that configuration. E'Wave integrates quite nicely at the top.... :yes:

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Edit: Here's a DIY version by another AK/LHF member:

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Keg:
Let me know if you're ordering some parts. I may want to play with these guys on my Valencias too and am pretty sure I want at least one set of the WaveGuides.

But I have to sort through over 600 posts first...:D
 
Klipsch RC7, RF7 tweeter assembly.

# 1.75 Titanium Dome Compression Driver
# 8" Square Tractrix Horn

And here is a pic of the driver, they go up pretty high, (bottle for scale here) :D
There from the newer series, I'll try an find the spec's. (throat on the horn lense is 1")

(We'll definatly be colaberating Andy, for sure)
 

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Hey Keg, I am ordering the waveguides to replace my EV 8hd lenzes. I'll see how the EV T-25 sounds with this compared to the 8hd. What boxes are you using? Cheers.
 
to Anyone in S.E. Michigan thinking about using this lenz, we should do a mass buy. Maybe we can get the shipping down. PM me if you're interested. Cheers.
 
One more CC question please!

Zilch,
What value, type, ie non inductive etc, what wattage and so forth on the 1.5 meg resistors?

Thanks,
Russellc
 
Zilch said:
10-cent 1/4-watt (smaller, even,) Radio Shack fare.... :yes:
Click to expand...

Thanks! Order out!

I used the dayton caps, and same resistor and coil numbers previously listed, plus the extra caps and resistors to also do the "over 95 db" version, total 110.25 from parts express.

Russellc
 
Thanks for the encouragement, Zilch, Russell, Jack.

I have learned mucho from the fullranger's,... but I was raised on Rock - N- Roll ( much to the chagrin of my parents ( who did their best with Peter Paul and Mary, and Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass, and the early stereophonic recordings that were paired with the WWII stuff I can't remember the name of.... )). I'm 48, I listen to what I want ( which is pretty eclectic). I'm not sure that I didn't learn MORE here, I certainly have a better understanding of XO topology now than I did before finding this thread.

The BIB adds around 5 Db to the response of the woofer so the bottom end should be somewhere near 100/Db/1/watt( one feller had 17Hz at 95Db, and 9Hz rattling his front door with the Eminence Cx 12). Would one of you sages hazard a guess as to which XO I should start with? Bear in mind, I wish to add a level control to be able to adjust the "econowave".

I've asked before on this thread, which measuring software I should consider. So, now I'll ask if the "True Audio" ARTA stuff that PE sells is a "good enough" type set- up, or should I look further?I don't really care, I'm looking to measure.

BTW, You Guys Rock Too.

John

Just an excited noob, who wants to build this winter. You guy's are, as my youngest brother says "The Bomb".
 
mightym said:
Thanks for the encouragement, Zilch, Russell, Jack.

The BIB adds around 5 Db to the response of the woofer so the bottom end should be somewhere near 100/Db/1/watt( one feller had 17Hz at 95Db, and 9Hz rattling his front door with the Eminence Cx 12). Would one of you sages hazard a guess as to which XO I should start with? Bear in mind, I wish to add a level control to be able to adjust the "econowave".

I've asked before on this thread, which measuring software I should consider. So, now I'll ask if the "True Audio" ARTA stuff that PE sells is a "good enough" type set- up, or should I look further?I don't really care, I'm looking to measure.

BTW, You Guys Rock Too.

John

Just an excited noob, who wants to build this winter. You guy's are, as my youngest brother says "The Bomb".
Click to expand...

Hi John, Welcome aboard the EconoWave bandwagon. You will surely enjoy the ride.

The Crossover for the woofers of greater than 95 Db SPL, dated 4-5-08 is the one you want. But if changes are needed, it only involves two resistors and one capacitor, so it isn't that big a deal. The other crossover is for woofers less than 95 Db SPL, and that one won't give you enough adjustment at maximum to match the woofer and tweeter.

As far as the True Audio ARTA stuff, I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it is only a CD program which will use your computer. You will still need cables, a microphone, a digital voltmeter, and who knows what else. My recomendation is to go with a Behringer DEQ 2496 and a ECM-8000 microphone. Then you can measure anywhere. And get some really accurate measurements. Zilch will probably jump in here with his recomendations, and maybe he is familiar with the TrueAudio stuff.

You have peaked my curiosity about the Goldwood 10" GW-10090. I may have to try a pair of those. The Goldwoods used by me so far, have done an excellent job. Too bad they don't publish better information. Maybe they are trying to control their growth.
 
Goldsound woofers

You know, it has occurred to me, (now that there is some work going forward thanks to Jackgiff with the goldsound woofers) that there is a high frequency driver waveguide, crossover, and now "econowoofer". This more or less is similar, and similar pricing to some of the Pi 4 kits over at the fine Pi speakers site.

I would love to see a comparison between the two models. I have a feeling it may be more entertaining that educational. Likely they are two slightly different flavors of the same slice. The eminence drivers used in the Pi speaker designs
are excellent candidates for econowave-woofers as well, I would think anyway, they sure are highly thought of by Wayne, and thats worth something in my book. Really great the way Wayne has chimed in on this project, giving his time and advice to econowave. Thanks Wayne!

Russellc
 
:music:
Russellc said:
You know, it has occurred to me, (now that there is some work going forward thanks to Jackgiff with the goldsound woofers) that there is a high frequency driver waveguide, crossover, and now "econowoofer". This more or less is similar, and similar pricing to some of the Pi 4 kits over at the fine Pi speakers site.

I would love to see a comparison between the two models. I have a feeling it may be more entertaining that educational. Likely they are two slightly different flavors of the same slice. The eminence drivers used in the Pi speaker designs
are excellent candidates for econowave-woofers as well, I would think anyway, they sure are highly thought of by Wayne, and thats worth something in my book. Really great the way Wayne has chimed in on this project, giving his time and advice to econowave. Thanks Wayne!

Russellc
Click to expand...

you may want to place the $26.20 PE Dayton Classic 10" DC250-8 somewhere in the mix as well...A GordonW fav.

vth
 
archie2 said:
Would a JBL D123 woofer work?
Click to expand...
D123 will work, but I've never been able to get big or deep bass out of them. From discussions of that driver over on LHF, nobody else has, either. I've been wanting to try a 2.5 tower approach, as I have a poo pot of them around here.

123A (-1/-3), the L100 woofer, used in a closed box, 1.4 - 3 cuft., is a killer combo with E'Wave. Four or five of us have built with those to date. Same with 2212/2213/H, the JBL Pro editions of that driver.... :thmbsp:
 
Question for the Zilchster.

Once upon a time long ago, I bought a pair of 4412's from audiobeer. He sold them to me because he liked the bass from the 4313B better. It uses an LE10 woofer. While it may not be as strong as the 12" woofer in the 4412, it certainly seems to have it's supporters as being an all round good woofer.

I have searched the LH site and can't find out if it will play nicely at 1.2 - 1.5 KHz, but it was used running wide open in the Lancer 77. The 4313 crossed it at 800 Hz. Do you think it would be a candidate for an EconoWave?
 
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