• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Zilch said:
Remember that the CX3400 settings are electrical, whereas the acoustical includes the driver responses.... :yes:
Click to expand...


HMMmmmm...I don't know about mechanical stuff. I am an old school analog guy. I need some time to think about what you just said.

Seems like mechanical devices driven by electrical signals should follow along, maybe with some delay. But then it seems that delay can be different depending upon frequency.

Again, HMmmmm.....
 
I'm guessing that in a passive crossover the response magnitude and phase in the crossover region depends on interactions between the passive components and the reactive nature of the driver, but in a line level crossover this interaction does not take place, potentially yielding different results?
 
Last edited:
Big 3.5 way horn speakers at Sept. SMAC meet today

These are the Classic Audio Reproductions T3.3 speakers. For an idea of scale, the woofer is a 15" TAD. There's another on the bottom (!). The amps are AtmaSpheres. There was also an awesome Avid ttbl.

attachment.php


attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • Dsc00636.jpg
    Dsc00636.jpg
    56.9 KB · Views: 272
  • Dsc00629.jpg
    Dsc00629.jpg
    63.1 KB · Views: 268
jackgiff said:
HMMmmmm...I don't know about mechanical stuff. I am an old school analog guy. I need some time to think about what you just said.

Seems like mechanical devices driven by electrical signals should follow along, maybe with some delay. But then it seems that delay can be different depending upon frequency.

Again, HMmmmm.....
Click to expand...
I was thinking more of the frequency response than the phase, along the lines of our highpass being 3 kHz, but the acoustic rolloff occurring much lower. If you measured the voltage drive of the CX3400, the picture might be different.

Analog guy may like this:

http://www.rane.com/note160.html

It lost me at the vectors.

Giskard found these:

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=8194

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=8424

I'm not a subscriber, alas....
 
Zilch said:
Remember that the CX3400 settings are electrical, whereas the acoustical includes the driver responses.... :yes:
Click to expand...

Way back in the thread when the use of CX 3400 was discussed, wasnt the active crossover point lower, say 1000 or so and above were sent to the HP, with the passive components still in place?

Without the passive components in place, what does one do, spread the crossover points on the active crossover to 1.6 on the LP and where ever measures out, somewhere obviously above 1.6 HP? ( plus the passive compensation as needed, I suppose this would change too.)

Or does one just have to measure until the crossover point is replicated ( and hopefully frequency response) with these active units, then add the required HF compensation with passive components? Or equalizer I guess...

Russellc
 
Last edited:
Zilch said:
Analog guy may like this:

http://www.rane.com/note160.html

It lost me at the vectors.

Giskard found these:

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=8194

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=8424

I'm not a subscriber, alas....
Click to expand...

Thanks Zilch, that Rane paper was a great read. Best explanation of the Linkwitz-Riley that I have read yet. And it maybe clarified some of my points of contention. I need to ruminate over them for a bit to fully understand, but my understanding of crossover technology has been greatly improved. Maybe just need a bit more HMMmmmm time.

I looked at the aes member fees, and it looks like I won't be a member either.

Since I didn't have any passive crossover parts yet in my latest test, just the CX 3400 and the Crown amplifier were used. I simply switched on the Constant Directivity (CD) horn compensation button on the CX 3400. That worked quite well for the DE250. Matching driver levels was accomplished with the Hi and Low level controls of the CX 3400, and the volume controls of the Crown amplifier.
 
Last edited:
I placed my order a few minutes ago for the 220TI /DC300 combo. My JBL waveguides should be here tomorrow.
Now I have to work out the cabinet details. I will most likely build from mdf and order some veneer to cover it with.
 
After a week of browsing through this thread, I bit the bullet and ordered the 220Ti/DC300 combo as well. I've got a pair of Pioneer CS-77As that desperately need a wake-up call.

I calculated the internal volume as 1.74 cu ft. Tried plugging in to WinISD but the results just don't seem to make sense. (I'm new to all of this so it's likely user error.) With the DC300, am I better off leaving the CS77s as a sealed cab? Would converting to a ported cab have any advantages?
 
Normster said:
After a week of browsing through this thread, I bit the bullet and ordered the 220Ti/DC300 combo as well. I've got a pair of Pioneer CS-77As that desperately need a wake-up call.

I calculated the internal volume as 1.74 cu ft. Tried plugging in to WinISD but the results just don't seem to make sense. (I'm new to all of this so it's likely user error.) With the DC300, am I better off leaving the CS77s as a sealed cab? Would converting to a ported cab have any advantages?
Click to expand...

Hi Normster. Welcome to EconoWave. It will be a great journey.

When I wanted to determine the characteristics of the Dayton DC 300 12 inch Classic woofer, it was not listed in the standard driver list in WinISD. The only listing in their standard list was for a generic Dayton 12 inch. I had to enter the T/S parameters myself, which are listed in the Parts Express listing. The cabinets I am using are roughly 1.72 to 1.8 cubic feet, so very similar to yours. Ported and tuned to 30 Hz seems like the best option, and was suggested by Zilch, after I had planned to use the WinISD suggested tuning of 25 Hz. It can be used in a closed cabinet, but is power limited if done that way.

Entering the parameters of the DC 300 will probably yield much better results for you.
 
jackgiff said:
Oh Man, anytime I need something pseudoacoutically infectored, I immediately think of Rane. The Rinkwitz Liley fourth grade crossover just gives me chills. Thanks for posting this really helpful link.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:
Click to expand...

It's a gag, and a pretty funny one:

Features

* Independent Power & Glory Switches
* Continuously Variable This/That Level
* Full-Function Ecstacy Generator
* Variable This to That Crossover Frequency
* Here-There Pan (Back Again Switching)
* Program Dependent Sheen Removal
* Anti-Resonant Concrete Chassis
* Proprietary Paint to Reflect Odd Harmonic Light Frequencies to Reduce Nono-Linear Photon Radiation Interference
* Time Warp Compression/Expansion to Synchronize Here/There Time Coordinates

Applications

* New Age Seminars
* Car Washes
* High School Cafeterias
* Funeral Homes
* Executive Washrooms
* High End Audio Demo Rooms
* Community Access Cable Channels
* Airport Baggage Claim Areas
* Cars With Tiny Steering Wheels
* Communications Scrambling
* Railroad Crossing Warning Systems
* Door Stops
 
Thanks, Jack. I entered the parameters and set the frequency to 30Hz. It's starting to make sense. I guess it's just counter-intuitive that a smaller port diameter would require a shorter length.
 
And I was impressed with the Indignias! Looks like I gotta order some more things this week from PE. Will this ever end? :thmbsp::thmbsp:
 
Maybe this has been asked before...

What are the "acceptable" waveguides/horns to mate with the D220ti? The Pyle 612 is constantly backordered. This isn't a problem for me, but I do like to know my options. What other ones work, with the same sound characteristics?

(The project is "officially" underway, I bought my MDF, port pipe today, and am using 12" drivers out of a Scott S-196. The Barzilay cabinets will work great with an F3 of 25 Hz, with two ports of 3" x 11.25". The passive radiator idea is off the table right now, as are the DC300's, to put the "econo" back into the project!)
 
1MOR said:
And I was impressed with the Indignias! Looks like I gotta order some more things this week from PE. Will this ever end?
Click to expand...
Not anytime soon, I shouldn't imagine.

A member of another forum observed that waveguides are now beginning to appear in more commercial products; it's a rare instance where DIY has led the way.... :thmbsp:


jhoyt said:
What are the "acceptable" waveguides/horns to mate with the D220ti? The Pyle 612 is constantly backordered.
Click to expand...

The JBL #338800-001 is the preferred option, which may be ordered from JBL Pro Parts, as indicated in the Project Summary linked from Post #1 of this thread. They don't always have those in stock, either, but call for availability.... :yes:
 
Last edited:
jhoyt said:
Maybe this has been asked before...

What are the "acceptable" waveguides/horns to mate with the D220ti? The Pyle 612 is constantly backordered. This isn't a problem for me, but I do like to know my options. What other ones work, with the same sound characteristics?

(The project is "officially" underway, I bought my MDF, port pipe today, and am using 12" drivers out of a Scott S-196. The Barzilay cabinets will work great with an F3 of 25 Hz, with two ports of 3" x 11.25". The passive radiator idea is off the table right now, as are the DC300's, to put the "econo" back into the project!)
Click to expand...
I'm glad to see your project if finally underway. :thmbsp: Did you start a thread on them?
 
jhoyt said:
Maybe this has been asked before...

What are the "acceptable" waveguides/horns to mate with the D220ti? The Pyle 612 is constantly backordered. This isn't a problem for me, but I do like to know my options. What other ones work, with the same sound characteristics?
Click to expand...
I have bought waveguides from JBL Pro, Parts Express (Pyle Pro) and QSC.

The Pyle horns are available from many sources, so shop around for availability. I give the folks at QSC five stars for quick shipping, good communication and an easy-to-use website. The QSC wavequides are a bit larger than the JBL/Pyle and they use bolt-on drivers. I would note that there is not currently a fully optimised crossover for the QSC/D220 combo, but I would bet one is coming.

If you have not already purcased the Selenium D220ti's, they are available as either threaded or bold-on versions.

QSC waveguides here:

http://www.qscstore.com/hpr152hfhorn.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom