The 12s are about 2dB more efficient than the 10s (90dB opposed to 88dB for the 10" Dayton Classics).
Takes a bigger box, but definitely worth a try...
Regards,
Gordon.
Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
The 12s are about 2dB more efficient than the 10s (90dB opposed to 88dB for the 10" Dayton Classics).
Takes a bigger box, but definitely worth a try...
Regards,
Gordon.
I'm tryin' to make the stock PE KD Trap box work without a lot of kerfutzing. It's a slam dunk with the standard eWave, and several other options. The QSC makes it more of a challenge.... :yes:
If it is the spiders, I wonder if letting them run for a day would help?
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
I got my DC300s, so I decided to take some measurements before they go out to school and their ultimate abuse in my re re re-purposed dumpster bins.
Measured at home using PE KD Traps with JBL 123A1s or PE DC300, both sealed, with about 65% fill. Compression driver is the DE250, sitting on top. All taken at 1 meter, on tweeter axis. No polars ☺
Starting with my current imperfect reference setup using JBL 123A1 and 4Pi crossover built with 20dB of HF attenuation PLUS L-Pad. (123As are very inefficient and 20 dB is the max attenuation Wayne Parham shows on his chart. I needed another 4 dB, guessing, and I have no idea how to use Spice.) Curiously, this gives me too much compensation when used with the Eminence H290, Wayne’s horn, so I guess the L-Pad is messing with the circuit. However, that plus a filter I tacked on makes it almost right with the DE250/QSC rig. Sounds good. The QSC is always placed 1.5” in front of the baffle, with the woofers rear mounted. The 4Pi crossover uses Wayne’s Zobel: 20 uF/8 Ohm.
4pi/123:RED
4Pi/DC300: BLUE
EWave standard/DC300: RED
4Pi/DC300: BLUE
This compares the 2 different compensation resistors Jack and Zilch have been trying on the EWave x-o. Both using 123 woofer.
EWave 16 Ohm comp: GREEN
EWave 30 Ohm comp: RED
The standard Ewave compensation is working well on the H290 horn. The bump at 1.8k is not good, though.
EWave standard/123/H290:
Measured at home using PE KD Traps with JBL 123A1s or PE DC300, both sealed, with about 65% fill. Compression driver is the DE250, sitting on top. All taken at 1 meter, on tweeter axis. No polars ☺
Starting with my current imperfect reference setup using JBL 123A1 and 4Pi crossover built with 20dB of HF attenuation PLUS L-Pad. (123As are very inefficient and 20 dB is the max attenuation Wayne Parham shows on his chart. I needed another 4 dB, guessing, and I have no idea how to use Spice.) Curiously, this gives me too much compensation when used with the Eminence H290, Wayne’s horn, so I guess the L-Pad is messing with the circuit. However, that plus a filter I tacked on makes it almost right with the DE250/QSC rig. Sounds good. The QSC is always placed 1.5” in front of the baffle, with the woofers rear mounted. The 4Pi crossover uses Wayne’s Zobel: 20 uF/8 Ohm.
4pi/123:RED
4Pi/DC300: BLUE
EWave standard/DC300: RED
4Pi/DC300: BLUE
This compares the 2 different compensation resistors Jack and Zilch have been trying on the EWave x-o. Both using 123 woofer.
EWave 16 Ohm comp: GREEN
EWave 30 Ohm comp: RED
The standard Ewave compensation is working well on the H290 horn. The bump at 1.8k is not good, though.
EWave standard/123/H290:
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skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Zilch,
DBs will get the DC300 ported and will retain standard EWave JBL waveguide.
The QSC and DE250 stays home as will the trap box. I don't know if the 123A will stay in there.
I will try to isolate the drivers tomorrow.
DBs will get the DC300 ported and will retain standard EWave JBL waveguide.
The QSC and DE250 stays home as will the trap box. I don't know if the 123A will stay in there.
I will try to isolate the drivers tomorrow.
DENNYDOG
Addicted Member
Just ordered all the parts including the B&C compression drivers which are now on sale for $125.57 each. About $25 off their regular price so the crossover parts are basically free if you order the stuff right now.
The Jantzen 0.60mH 20 AWG Air Core Inductors are on back order. It looks like they will be in on the 8th of October. Still probably another 1 1/2 months until the QSC waveguides come in from back order! Sucks! At least I will be able to get pretty much everything together by then.
The Jantzen 0.60mH 20 AWG Air Core Inductors are on back order. It looks like they will be in on the 8th of October. Still probably another 1 1/2 months until the QSC waveguides come in from back order! Sucks! At least I will be able to get pretty much everything together by then.
lico
Super Member
It sounds like my QSC waveguides are on back order as well, must be a run on them 
I'm thinking they will fit nicely into these cabs... want to build another set of speaks with DE250s in them, something smaller than my current ones.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136233&d=1234836391
I'm thinking they will fit nicely into these cabs... want to build another set of speaks with DE250s in them, something smaller than my current ones.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136233&d=1234836391
ROSSO
Active Member
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
I did an E'Wave with LE10H's in EV Baronet clone cabinets some many pages ago. The LE10H is a very sweet woofer, and made an exceptional project.
Did you use the PR as well? If so, does it work well? How did the change in cab size effect the sound of the driver?
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
I didn't use the PR's in that one, but I have a pair of LE10A's and the 10 inch PR's which will eventually get built into a taller version, along with maybe a BMS driver. They work exceptionally well in the Lancer 77, so I expect they will work that well in something larger. Just will need to be retuned.
Jack, didn't you use LE111H in your theater's center channel?
That should sound a lot like LE10H, excepting the black painted frame.
I've got an E'Wave module sitting on an inverted L96 which has sounded wonderful playing the Beatles mono box recently.
Messin' around with "textbook" Zobel as well as that from 3113B, but haven't picked a favorite....
That should sound a lot like LE10H, excepting the black painted frame.
I've got an E'Wave module sitting on an inverted L96 which has sounded wonderful playing the Beatles mono box recently.
Messin' around with "textbook" Zobel as well as that from 3113B, but haven't picked a favorite....
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
Yes, the LE111H was used in the center channel, and I have two more of them for the rear channels. Except for the frame color, they are essentally equivalents. The LE111A, if memory serves correctly, is a different critter though.
Post some pics, and we can make you "Official...." :yes:
Dennis – I just finished a pair of L77’s using a 2232 buttcheek instead of the standard waveguide. I added a piece of ¾ MDF on top of the existing baffle, duplication one of the original cutouts for the LE10 and creating a second cutout for the buttcheeks, keeping the dimensions as tight as possible in case I choose to put in a pair of the original waveguides. Currently they are running bi-amped using the standard xover with the Selenium 220. They are a little more subdued than the waveguides. I need to read up on Zilch's Q&D thread for xover refinements.
I had been somewhat reluctant to spend the extra cash required to try out the B&C 250’s mated with the QSC waveguide but I had a little extra scratch left at the eom so I went ahead and pulled the trigger. I installed them in a 3.8cf MDF enclosure with LE14’s. Running biamped with LE14 crossover. In my opinion after 3 uninterrupted ours of listening, Diana Krall cd, Cosmos Factory R2R and Joshua Tree LP there is a significant difference over the standard selenium/ewave combo. Smoother? Definitely. Less sibilance, exception imaging and an openness I hadn’t experienced with the original combo.
Absolutly worth the investment.
Thanks again, to all that keep this project/experience moving.
George
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Very nice, George; a clever L77 retrofit. It's 2342, the mid-size butt cheeks, used in 4425, L200t3, and others. You're also the first eWaver to post a completed DE250/QSC system.... :thmbsp:
Good one George. Interesting that the foams on these don't rot, they harden. My are fairly hard but I don't know if they need refoam or not. Bauhausler is helping me out in my 6SL7/2A3/GM70 amp build at the moment, so I think these L77 need to go on the back burner. When I get to them though (if I keep them) I will do as you did George but with the small waveguide and the standard eWave crossover.......for the less sensitive woofer of course.