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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

On DIY

This rant probably doesn't belong here, or maybe it belongs everywhere on this site. There are a number of people who are on the fence about this project and I want to put the act of Personal Speaker Creation in context for them.

DIY is the greatest invention of humanity. Arguably, Homo Sapiens was created BY DIY and not the other way around. The ability to use technology to alter and build things is the most basic human characteristic, defining our species all the way back to the first Paleolithic cave squatter who discovered that knocking two rocks together produces sharp flakes good for butchering animals.

But at that first moment of primitive manufacture I guarantee there was another cave man reclining against a rock and giving advice. "No, Ugh, you need a different rock" "Bang them together end to end" "That won't work" "Too much trouble" "I know a guy who tried that and he smashed his thumb". And my favorite "I was going to do that but sharp sticks are better so I'm going to do one of those some time".

If Ugh was smart, he stood up and applied one of the rocks to the cranium of the helpful narrator and got on with making his rock flakes in peace.

It's a long way from edged chips of flint to the Large Hadron Collider and Billy the Singing Bass on a plaque. Every step of the way there's been some wise soul stifling the project with negative advice. Some times that advice is good. If the Graf Zeppelin company had heeded a few warnings about flammable dope on their fabric airships we might still have lighter than air transport, which would be so cool. But you have to look at the source. Has the purveyor of free guidance ever made anything besides hot air? Do they have credentials and past accomplishments? Has their past advice been useful? Do other people think they're full of baloney?

The formation of communities for sharing projects has been a tremendous boon for us rock knockers who like to make stuff. It allows us to tap into the experience of vastly more people than we could otherwise meet. But there's a lot of noise in the information. More than ever you have to be discriminating about the source of the words and make careful judgments about credibility.

No project or product ever goes exactly as planned or meets every expectation. Sometimes they fail expensively, wasting time and resources. But you never learn anything by not trying. Improvement is the corollary to creation. Build, try, tweak, try and tweak some more. It takes time, money and effort, but if Ugh had listened to his helpful neighbor and given up on pounding stones we'd still be squatting in caves eating raw food whole.

So go DIY, and if someone tells you it's not worth the trouble hit him on the head with a rock.
 
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Those look great, Hatchetjack.
:thmbsp:

I got some PE flared port tubes in an impulse buy.
I read that the total length of the flared section should be counted as one half of the diameter of the straight-tube section. Sound right?
 
What is Jack thinking???

I decided to disassemble my "ugly bettys' and clean up the baffles. They looked pretty bad after the screw in insert fiasco.

While trying to figure out how to mount the woofer with no hurricane nuts on the front, it became apparent that there is just about enough room for an LE14A on the front panel. It would need some kind of brace between the tweeter and woofer, but that could be done easily, and it would be inside the cabinet where it doesn't show. That leaves only the problem of matching the time delays. And there are ways to do that.

Then I thought, would the B&C 12PC32-8 fit on there? I have a pair of them on hand, and a totally B&C system (except for waveguide) might be quite nice. And of course it does fit. Even allows about 1/16 inch for error.

HHMMMmmmm....

Either woofer would be flush mounted, as well as the waveguide. That would allow a veneered baffle. Nice. :yes:


Edit: Looked at the B&C horns. Don't really like any of them, but the smaller two look like they work mechanically. Does anyone have any experience with them?
 

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Found a pair of JBL L77 Lancers tonight in the trash. All the surrounds are good and no rubbing when I push in the woofs. How would these do for eWaves. I would need different cabs but the LE10 with passive radiators look to be in good shape.
 
What Zilch is thinking:

HHMMMmmmm....
It's important to minimize the center-to-center distance, and with the QSC waveguide, that's best accomplished recessing the waveguide flush, rear-mounting a 12" woofer behind the stock cutout, and rounding over the opening and waveguide edge in that region.

Does a roundover leave enough "meat" in the driver mounting bolt hole locations to simply through-bolt the woofer from the front? If not, then an answer is to make or buy speaker rings, install hurricane or T-nuts in them, and then glue to the rear of the baffle:

http://eliteinstallersupply.com/rings.php

How thin can they be? How long is the nut? How much can it stick out?

Committed to face mounting and still want to use the DE250? Abandon the QSC and use XT1086, instead.


Found a pair of JBL L77 Lancers tonight in the trash. All the surrounds are good and no rubbing when I push in the woofs. How would these do for eWaves. I would need different cabs but the LE10 with passive radiators look to be in good shape.
Consider installing a waveguide in place of the passive, and porting the enclosure.... :yes:
 
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Found a pair of JBL L77 Lancers tonight in the trash. All the surrounds are good and no rubbing when I push in the woofs. How would these do for eWaves. I would need different cabs but the LE10 with passive radiators look to be in good shape.

I have L77 cabs. We'll talk...
 
I have hackable Val cabs that I've measured for various projects and left alone. Did you have to cut away the 'shelf' at the bottom of the 811 opening to get clearance for the waveguide?
I took out the entire front baffle and made new baffles. Not hard to do. The front baffle is only screwed, not glued, to the cabinet, but to get it out I had to chisel out two glued corner gussets at the bottom in the front and two glued side cleats in the rear that mount the removable rear baffle. Once they were all out of the way, the front baffle could be plulled out from the back, bottom edge first. The new baffles look like they have always been there. These QSC/LE14 variants are my third combo in these cabinets, following the H-811-B/LE14 and Econowave/LE14 versions.

The QSC option works for me beacause I already owned the pricier B&C drivers, but I was short a pair of the Seleniums. Since the QSC waveguides were under $8 bucks each and I still had pair of blank Val baffles from the six I cut from a 4x8 sheet of MDF, they were immediately an attractive option.

My Vals are the "early" type where the woofer and the horn both mounted to the front baffle in the same plane and the "ports" are simply the rectangular openings on either side of the H-811-B. I believe that on later Vals they moved the woofer baffle forward and used actual round tube ports?

2AM in Detroit?! Don't you guys sleep, or has Tigermania taken over up there?
 
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I took out the entire front baffle and made new baffles. Not hard to do. The front baffle is only screwed, not glued, to the cabinet, but to get it out I had to chisel out two glued corner gussets at the bottom in the front and two glued side cleats in the rear that mount the removable rear baffle. Once they were all out of the way, the front baffle could be plulled out from the back, bottom edge first. The new baffles look like they have always been there. These QSC/LE14 variants are my third combo in these cabinets, following the H-811-B/LE14 and Econowave/LE14 versions.

The QSC option works for me beacause I already owned the pricier B&C drivers, but I was short a pair of the Seleniums. Since the QSC waveguides were under $8 bucks each and I still had pair of blank Val baffles from the six I cut from a 4x8 sheet of MDF, they were immediately an attractive option.

My Vals are the "early" type where the woofer and the horn both mounted to the front baffle inthe same plane and the "ports" are simply the rectagngular openings on either side of the H-811-B. I believe that on later Vals they moved the woofer baffle forward and used actual round tube ports?

2AM in Detroit?! Don't you guys sleep, or has Tigermania taken over up there?

It's now 9:00 am, and no we actually sleep very little, baseball season or otherwise!

That's the difference. My Val cabs are later ones with a removable woofer baffle and recessed horn area. I still might be able to do something worthwhile with these cabs and the QSC waveguide, but I guess it would be 2 months before I could find out.
Thanks for the detailed description. Please keep us updated!
 
Just want to add, I also am running the Dayton Classic 10" woofers now and love them!

I need to get a set of the 12s and build a second set so I can compare. Just wish they were a bit more efficient.
 
Consider installing a waveguide in place of the passive, and porting the enclosure.... :yes:

Port where the tweeter goes in the L77 cabinet, and a round waveguide where the 10" passive goes... that should work, huh, Zilch?

Regards,
Gordon.
 
LE14 butted up tight to the bottom of the QSC WG. Baffle is for Valencia cabinet tuned to 32 Hz.

View attachment 172049

ROSSO, that looks so fine. I have a pair of Valencias (A version) that have just sat in my garage for several years, and they really should be used for something. If they look standard on the outside, who cares what is in them?

Maybe they will get a similar re-work. The Altec parts can be sold to finance the entire project. Another thought provoking project? :yes:
 
Found a pair of JBL L77 Lancers tonight in the trash. All the surrounds are good and no rubbing when I push in the woofs. How would these do for eWaves. I would need different cabs but the LE10 with passive radiators look to be in good shape.

Need to test those woofers. I carefully refoamed a pair only to find that the Fs is about 2X as high as it should be and the VAS is very low. It's not the surrounds. The Fs tested high before refoaming (but I didn't check what it should be!), when the surrounds were completely off. I'm thinking the spider must have stiffened up over time. I think I've blown my chance to fix that without major disassembly.
 
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