Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Zilch]

So we do know the driver components... Of course Zilch would know. It is an amazing thread. Correct me if I'm wrong Zilch, but wasn't the proto EWave using BMS 4550s and a JBL woofer?

Yup, first proto eWave was built by AKer Mxlews with 4550 and 123A-1/3.

From the tear sheet, it's not BMS in that product. I was referring to what Danley recommended in the LHF thread.... :yes:

I just finished listening to the first two cuts from Tommy Emmanuel's "The Journey" CD (Tailin' the Invisible Man and Big Brother). Cranked things up to about 95dB and my jaw hit the floor. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks again to all who made this project possible. You guys have really helped me shore up the weak links in my audio chain.

SO, whatcha buildin' next, Normster...? :tongue:

 

[GordonW]

Just Wavin' to the crowd...

It's underway.

Going to be upgrading the speakers for the Main Video room at Anime Weekend Atlanta, for AWA16 in 2010.

Currently, we've been using a set of 12" 3-way speakers, that I built long ago, in the front three positions, and a pair of modified Technics SBL51s in the rears. That's all going by the wayside... to be replaced by THIS:

That's 15" Ewaves on all three front positions (L C R) and 10" E-waves for the rears. The subs are already in existence... they contain Dayton Quatro 15s with a 300w BASH amp in each.

I've already custom-built the 15" woofers for the front three E-waves... I'm in the process of building a pair of 10" woofers for the rears. The front three cabinets will be 25.5" tall, 24" wide and 12" deep. The rears will be 25.5" tall, 12" wide and 12" deep. They will be made to fit together for transport, like this:

Each sub has wheels; they will have dowel pins in the corners, to "lock" the Ewaves onto their tops. Then, we will use suitcase-latches to hold the E-waves onto the subs, and to each other. This will allow the whole 7-speaker system to be transportable as two stacks on wheels. The left front and right front Ewave will stay on the sub as shown... the subs will act as left and right speaker stands.

Should not only sound better (more dynamics, more uniform HF coverage), but be easier to transport as well!

 

[doucanoe]

Is eWave teasing Tractrix yet...?

Teasing maybe, but teasing in the way a pup tries to play with older dog. It excels in energy and enthusiasm but still lacks the chops to compete ultimately.

Dang impressive for the components involved though :yes:

RC

 

[skywave-rider]

WHOAH!
I remember you had the "Big Reds" last year.

This will be impressive.
All I can say is "pictures, please."

It's underway.

Going to be upgrading the speakers for the Main Video room at Anime Weekend Atlanta, for AWA16 in 2010.

Currently, we've been using a set of 12" 3-way speakers, that I built long ago, in the front three positions, and a pair of modified Technics SBL51s in the rears. That's all going by the wayside... to be replaced by THIS:

That's 15" Ewaves on all three front positions (L C R) and 10" E-waves for the rears. The subs are already in existence... they contain Dayton Quatro 15s with a 300w BASH amp in each.

I've already custom-built the 15" woofers for the front three E-waves... I'm in the process of building a pair of 10" woofers for the rears. The front three cabinets will be 25.5" tall, 24" wide and 12" deep. The rears will be 25.5" tall, 12" wide and 12" deep. They will be made to fit together for transport, like this:

Each sub has wheels; they will have dowel pins in the corners, to "lock" the Ewaves onto their tops. Then, we will use suitcase-latches to hold the E-waves onto the subs, and to each other. This will allow the whole 7-speaker system to be transportable as two stacks on wheels. The left front and right front Ewave will stay on the sub as shown... the subs will act as left and right speaker stands.

Should not only sound better (more dynamics, more uniform HF coverage), but be easier to transport as well!

 

[packrat]

GC Pro had them running in a system with a modern automated console, etc.. I attached the tear sheet I picked up if anyone is interested. There are some specifications. Don't know what the drivers are.



Yes, I was fascinated by that LHF thread back when...and so I recognized these immediately. I have used Ocean Way monitors, but never these. I think they look cool. Check the price. Not Econo, but they are 2 way.


EDIT:
So we do know the driver components... Of course Zilch would know. It is an amazing thread. Correct me if I'm wrong Zilch, but wasn't the proto EWave using BMS 4550s and a JBL woofer?

Am I the only one a little bit disgusted that Allen Sides of Ocean Way is taking the RCA LC-9A design and passing it off as his own? :thumbsdn: From all the photos I've seen it looks to be an exact copy the original RCA cabinet - or perhaps even original RCA cabinets which have been refinished.

 

[Bauhausler]

I nominate Gordon

for Most Ambitious eWaver. The really scary thing is that he WILL post pix of all of this gear built up and running.

*** EDIT ***

Wow. Page 500.

 

[Sync]

Zilch...I told you about a bit plastic sound...this mod fixed problem...much better sound from selenium now...

 

[skywave-rider]

Am I the only one a little bit disgusted that Allen Sides of Ocean Way is taking the RCA LC-9A design and passing it off as his own? :thumbsdn: From all the photos I've seen it looks to be an exact copy the original RCA cabinet - or perhaps even original RCA cabinets which have been refinished.

It looks to be the same from the outside.
I'm not an avid audio historian, but Allen Sides has a lot of history with United Western Studios, which is continued today as Ocean Way, his studio, in the same legendary location; and that was Bill Putnam's studio, and that is Universal and UREI. RCA may have a connection there.

There aren't many places like that left. Maybe his is the only one.
http://www.oceanwayrecording.com/about-history.php
I have a Mix magazine article on Ocean Way and the history kicking around here somewhere. If I find it I will scan and post it.

I just think it's great that 2 way horn designs are still the high benchmark in critical professional applications, at least in the large formats.

 

[von.ah]

So I've started geeking...
I've aquired a DEQ and the Dayton mic. I have only begun to scratch the surface of the wunder curve machine, but I was able to get a few measurements of my Ewave'd L56 cabinets over the weekend.

No pics yet, so here is a reminder of what the cabs look like.

After doing some rude nearfield and ~1m measurements, it looked like I have a notch ~ 1600 Hz on one of the units. Would that indicate reversed polarity on a woofer or HF driver?

I love that this thread still goes on and on... :thmbsp:

 

[GordonW]

So I've started geeking...
I've aquired a DEQ and the Dayton mic. I have only begun to scratch the surface of the wunder curve machine, but I was able to get a few measurements of my Ewave'd L56 cabinets over the weekend.

No pics yet, other than what the cabs look like.

After doing some rude nearfield and ~1m measurements, it looked like I have a notch ~ 1600 Hz on one of the units. Would that indicate reversed polarity on a woofer or HF driver?

I love that this thread still goes on and on... :thmbsp:

Very likely. In fact, if the crossover is wired correctly, that's about exactly where a dip would occur.

Definitely try swapping the polarity on one or the other (woofer or HF driver). What I'd do, is to check and see if the woofers are in polarity with each other first (flashlight battery test on the cabinet terminals)... if they are, then swap the HF driver polarity. If not, then swap the woofer polarity...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[von.ah]

Thanks, Gordon!
Btw, have you ever done a recone or surround job on JBL 118H woofers before?

 

[skywave-rider]

After doing some rude nearfield and ~1m measurements, it looked like I have a notch ~ 1600 Hz on one of the units. Would that indicate reversed polarity on a woofer or HF driver?

I love that this thread still goes on and on... :thmbsp:

:thmbsp:Cool.
Probably. If you have a digital cam, take a shot of the FR graph set to slow on the DEQ2496 and viewed full screen.

Set the woofers so that a batt. at the input of the crossover gives forward cone motion. Then check your RTA for HF polarity and change the HF connection if needed.

When you first checked, wonder where your HF level was? High, low, right on? Curious.

 

[von.ah]

I was really going about it hastily, so the scientific method was not in full swing. What I recall is that the HF was a bit low relative to LF (according to the display). Though I was utilizing less than half of the L-pad's range.

 

[Zilch]

Am I the only one a little bit disgusted that Allen Sides of Ocean Way is taking the RCA LC-9A design and passing it off as his own? :thumbsdn: From all the photos I've seen it looks to be an exact copy the original RCA cabinet - or perhaps even original RCA cabinets which have been refinished.

It wouldn't hurt a bit if they included attribution to May, at least. I can't imagine they expect the obvious provenance to go unrecognized. Bad marketing, I'd say, and their "angle" will likely refocus once the heat is on. :nono:

Zilch...I told you about a bit plastic sound...this mod fixed problem...much better sound from selenium now...

Good idea, damping the rear chamber. :scratch2:

So I've started geeking...
I've aquired a DEQ and the Dayton mic. I have only begun to scratch the surface of the wunder curve machine, but I was able to get a few measurements of my Ewave'd L56 cabinets over the weekend.

We want to see the curves, of course. :yes:

I love that this thread still goes on and on...

Yup, we're all still learning and having fun here.

Teasing maybe, but teasing in the way a pup tries to play with older dog. It excels in energy and enthusiasm but still lacks the chops to compete ultimately.

Little dog has spunk! :thmbsp:

It's underway.

Going to be upgrading the speakers for the Main Video room at Anime Weekend Atlanta, for AWA16 in 2010.

GO, Gordon, GO!

 

[bsujeep]

Zilch...I told you about a bit plastic sound...this mod fixed problem...much better sound from selenium now...

What did you use to damp it with?

 

[Sync]

@ bsujeep
White stuff in cap holes is some putty to kill resonances.....and some 2mm thick green 100% cotton fabric.

 

[doucanoe]

Little dog has spunk! :thmbsp:

Sure enough does!

RC

 

[Zilch]

Sure enough does!

Maybe upgrade to DE250/QSC446 in 4507s next.

We're not "there" on the crossover yet, but a bunch of us are kerfutzing with that combo, and it will come.... :yes:

 

[GordonW]

Thanks, Gordon!
Btw, have you ever done a recone or surround job on JBL 118H woofers before?

Surround on 118H is pretty simple. They can use the same surround as 125A/127H.

Recone would be harder. But, as long as the original white cone is intact (blown voice coil), they can be repaired with new voice coils. A lot of work, but it can be done.

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[GordonW]

Zilch...I told you about a bit plastic sound...this mod fixed problem...much better sound from selenium now...

Hey, if anyone does this (filling/damping the rear cap on the D220Ti)... I'd love to see before and after measurements. Could be interesting!

Regards,
Gordon.