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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

skywave-rider said:
Request, if you have time Zilch, can you do a nearfield of 123A-1 in box as shown? I want to make a judgment as to whether or not I want to put the QSC waveguide in the box and lose the volume. I will nearfield my box to compare.
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I'll have to come back to that; the box is not sealed, presently.

Wayne Parham said:
Secondary lobes are smaller, and the notch at their outside edge seems smaller too. That can make it look like one side has no null but the other seems to be too close. It often looks like one side has a big null that's too close and the other side has a little null or none at all.
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Thanks, Wayne; I'll see if I can locate the upper limit of the lobe before moving on the next driver.... :yes:

Edit: Found the upper null at waveguide axis +24":

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3213532#post3213532
 
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Steve O2 said:
So what did he think of them and was there any testing involved???
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Silly Bose.

They sounded surprisingly great and didn't need all that much tweaking 'right out of the box'. Looking forward to listening in glorious stereo. They don't play too low but that's to be expected. Driver integration was verrry smooth.

I'd like to A/B the top end with the traditional Ewave Selenium combo, maybe in some Utliity Advents because they're a known quantity as well as abundant.

The square mini waveguide kicks ass! I need more time with it, soon.
 
My experience has been it is a direct replacement for the D220ti with the same crossover...

It is more efficient, but I was able to turn it down with the L pad a bit.

It sounds better all over for me, but the lower mid range really sounds nice to me:music:

Parts Express is usually 1-2 day shipping here:D

But for some reason Im waiting a week for my last 2 orders :sigh:

I want to try some measurements using my sound card on my computer and free software :scratch2:

Aside from REW, any recommendations on good free measurement software???
 
Zilch said:
...
Finding the upper node at waveguide axis plus 24", the forward lobe is 39.29° tall:
Click to expand...

Congratulations!
Almost within the realm of acceptability. :D
At 40 degrees, I would think this is unlikely to be a minor lobe.



Zilch said:
With rear-mounted DC300-8, the front plate of which is 1.19" further back than that of 123A-1, the tilt actually goes UP more, the lower null occurring at -8" (-10.3°) below the waveguide axis, with the forward axis at +9" (+11.6°):
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Wow. This woofer is literally "faster" than the JBL.
I wonder if the upper is 39.29° above?

Kudos to ya.
 
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skywave-rider said:
Congratulations!
Almost within the realm of acceptability. :D
At 40 degrees, I would think this is unlikely to be a minor lobe.
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Yup, we just gotta get it aimed the right place. ;)

skywave-rider said:
Wow. This woofer is literally "faster" than the JBL.
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It's certainly lighter. :tongue:

Tube King said:
What is the difference between the Pyle wave guide and the JBL wave guide?
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Pyle has a metal insert where the driver threads on. In detail, there are some differences that cause the Pyle to like throat adapters even less than the JBL does.... :yes:
 
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Zilch said:
Revised the crossover per Jackgiff's spec here:

Crossover frequency moves down to 1.72 kHz, lower null to -8.5" (-10.9°) with forward axis at +10.5" (13.4°):
Click to expand...

There is quite a discrepancy between my RTA and your CLIO. Which one of them is correct? CLIO has much better resolving powers, and since it uses your computers time base for generation and measurement, it should be the most accurate. But I doubt that either of them are traceable to a known frequency standard. Since CLIO resolves it down to the cycle, I will go with CLIO.

I guess the selection of values to get to the desired 1.6 KHz is left to the Zilchster. I will get on with completing the finish on my PE/B&C/QSC cabinets.
 
jackgiff said:
There is quite a discrepancy between my RTA and your CLIO. Which one of them is correct? CLIO has much better resolving powers, and since it uses your computers time base for generation and measurement, it should be the most accurate. But I doubt that either of them are traceable to a known frequency standard. Since CLIO resolves it down to the cycle, I will go with CLIO.
Click to expand...
I can fire up the Behringer here and have a look. You can see by the depth of the inverse polarity notch (Gry), that's measured precisely on the forward axis. It's very clear in the phase response at that location, as well.

Sounds like Skywave is setting up the same combo, and will be making similar measurements. As with all of this, findings are "subject to independent verification."

I have two more woofers I want to try, 2214H (which is deeper yet) and DC250 on adapter ring, but it's certainly looking like neither changes in woofer geometry nor minor shifts in crossover frequency significantly alter the axis of the forward lobe in this circumstance; the waveguide is in control. That doesn't mean it's not amenable to correction via different means such as others have suggested to Brandon, and that's where I'll likely look next.

Lest anyone be discouraged, I'll reiterate that both of these combinations sound very good as-is. As Skywave observed, we're giving this waveguide a higher level of scrutiny in system optimization, is all.... :thmbsp:

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I'm thinking about joining in with the EWave craze.

There's a set of factory Technics SB-6000A's selling locally that I think would be a good candidate. And I shouldn't have to hack them up to do it. From what I read, that 12" woofer produces some real nice lows.

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Others I've considered:

JBL 4311, since again, I wouldn't have to hack up the cabinets.
Finding another set of HPM-100's to hack up.
 
Advent Ewave V3.0

Following the shootout I described the other day I've received a request from the Heresy owner to Ewave a pair of Advents for him. I picked this pair of NLAs.

The waveguide has to be trimmed or the rim undercut, as has been discussed. The amount trimmed off is about 1/8" each side. It has to be sanded back just to the edge of the side screw counterbore.

These will get the full treatment, with fiberglass stuffing, new correct woofer foam and outboarded crossovers at the customer's request.

Watch this space...

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Rock&Roll said:
I'm thinking about joining in with the EWave craze.

There's a set of factory Technics SB-6000A's selling locally that I think would be a good candidate. And I shouldn't have to hack them up to do it. From what I read, that 12" woofer produces some real nice lows.

technicssb6000abrochure0ip.jpg


Others I've considered:

JBL 4311, since again, I wouldn't have to hack up the cabinets.
Finding another set of HPM-100's to hack up.
Click to expand...

We had a pair of those back in the day as well as SB-7000as. The bass is very nice, and losing the original tweeters will be no tragedy.
 
DAMN, I have a pair of those in a closet. They were going to be my first eWaves but then I fell into the ESS AMT 1s. I think I will drag them out tomorrow and have a look. I remember that they are great bass and low mids but the upper mids and highs were ragged.
 
djnagle said:
DAMN, I have a pair of those in a closet. They were going to be my first eWaves but then I fell into the ESS AMT 1s. I think I will drag them out tomorrow and have a look. I remember that they are great bass and low mids but the upper mids and highs were ragged.
Click to expand...

The best integrated of the 2-ways was the 5000A, which had a smaller woofer. It performed better in the upper range, matching the small tweeter. The 6000As woofer should work fine as an ewave.
I delivered some repaired tube amps to a customer recently and he had just picked up a pair of 6000As. He was wowed by the bottom end, which really is good. I was itching to slap a waveguide on top and see what happened.
 
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