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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Wayne Parham said:
Sometimes people will ask if it's OK to route the baffles for flush mounted drivers in one of my loudspeaker designs, if that will help or hurt performance. I always tell them they can be routed or front mounted, that it's largely a matter of aesthetics. The tolerance of the crossover components and thermal shifts do more than a fraction of an inch offset, at least at the scale we're working with here, in the overlap region of 1kHz to 2kHz. And the diffraction edge is too small at these frequencies too. It's acoustically invisible.
Click to expand...

Sorry to quote myself
uhh.gif
but I wanted to add something and keep the same train of thought. I would never rear-mount a horn tweeter because the baffle edge blocks the flare and disrupts the wavefront. UNLESS you radius the edge, which gives an opportunity to smooth the mouth transition on horns that have a hard edge at the mouth.

I've done this on a few of my speakers, with the baffle painted black to match the H290 horn. It provides a lot of the benefits of my more expensive wood horn at lower cost. It also allows the drivers to be placed very close together, with the woofer nestled into the horn's edge transition on the baffle.

The roundover has to be done with a CNC though, because I don't know of any router bits that match the flare exit angle and provide the right contour. But it isn't hard to do and will allow the same benefit of a nice wood horn with lower cost.

Those of you that are using the PTF95HF might consider this. This allows your baffle to form part of the final flare, and the roundover smoothes the transition. You can keep the woofer close to the tweeter, closer than a larger horn will allow. Sort of lets you have your cake and eat it too.
 
donprice said:
OK. I found your crossover design for the BMS 4550 (and JBL 123A-1) in the "Interesting 60's speakers" thread. What are the crossover points? I didn't find that when reading through the thread.
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I'd guess I was aiming at 1.2 kHz.

That was pre-Ewave; I'd bet that Jack will come up with a better solution.

von.ah said:
Here's a wild-A idea for those who like the PE trap cab but think it is two small for the DC300: Build an extender-stand for it like Zilch did way back with the LE14 and increase the cabinet volume. You could match the angles of cut with the existing knock-down panels.
Or, you could be crazy and buy 4 trap cabs and make two enclosures out of them, sorta like member dc270 did with his homebrew Altec 19's.
Click to expand...
Yes, that'll work, making towers of them. An additional cubic foot or so is all that is required, easily acquired in a plinth. From the BB6P models, just moving the baffle forward or adjusting the tuning isn't going to do much.

I have the DC300 mounted in the ported PE Trap cab for measurements, and it's getting below 40 Hz nicely, if that's good enough.

Wayne Parham said:
Those of you that are using the PTF95HF might consider this. This allows your baffle to form part of the final flare, and the roundover smoothes the transition. You can keep the woofer close to the tweeter, closer than a larger horn will allow. Sort of lets you have your cake and eat it too.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your suggestions again, Wayne. I'm not certain if cabinet edge overhangs are that big of an issue when using CD waveguides, even, but we're now in a position to measure and find out.

freddyi said:
where can one purchase the QSC waveguide?
Click to expand...
The QSC website parts store.... :yes:
 
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Zilch said:
Thank you for your suggestions again, Wayne. I'm not certain if cabinet edge overhangs are that big of an issue when using CD waveguides, even, but we're now in a position to measure and find out.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about cabinet edges, I'm talking about horn mouth edges. I agree that they are not usually a problem, at least not if the horn is used in its intended range, i.e. not too low. But the mouth edge is a discontinuity, and the impedance (and therefore response) ripple can be reduced if this is made larger and/or smoother.
 
Hey guys, I apologize if this is listed somewhere but I couldn't find it...

Is there a list of alternate waveguides that work with the D220ti with little or no change to the original crossover? I know I could use the original JBL or the QSC (if I get the bolt on D220ti).
 
Vaughn said:
Is there a list of alternate waveguides that work with the D220ti with little or no change to the original crossover? I know I could use the original JBL or the QSC (if I get the bolt on D220ti).
Click to expand...
The only other "Official" waveguide is the 6" square JBL PT at this point, with the 8" square PT and QSC pending, though we have used the larger Dayton elliptical, 18-Sound XT120 and XT1086, and JBL OASR in other projects and threads here on AK. The JBL PRX horn also appears workable:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/PRX Series/PRX512M.pdf

All of these require adjustments to the core eWave crossover.... :yes:
 
Thanks

Rosso and Zilch

Thanks for answering my question about the screw on vs. bolt on. I guess I am itching to try different things with my ewaves. They however, sound awesome though.:music:
 
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Vaughn said:
Hey guys, I apologize if this is listed somewhere but I couldn't find it...

Is there a list of alternate waveguides that work with the D220ti with little or no change to the original crossover? I know I could use the original JBL or the QSC (if I get the bolt on D220ti).
Click to expand...

The Altec 511B sure seemed to work. That would imply that they Pyle PH714 should also work (same basic shape, just with better dispersion in the PH714).

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Zilch said:
The only other "Official" waveguide is the 6" square JBL PT at this point, with the 8" square PT and QSC pending, though we have used the larger Dayton elliptical, 18-Sound XT120 and XT1086, and JBL OASR in other projects and threads here on AK. The JBL PRX horn also appears workable:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/PRX Series/PRX512M.pdf

All of these require adjustments to the core eWave crossover.... :yes:
Click to expand...

And the Pyle! but its essentially the same deal as the JBL I guess......

russellc
 
GordonW said:
The Altec 511B sure seemed to work. That would imply that they Pyle PH714 should also work (same basic shape, just with better dispersion in the PH714).

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

I will have to try that. i tried it with the altec 802 8G on the 511B, didnt sound as good as the crossover I already had in the A7. I only have the screw on 220 ti, so I'll have to use an adapter....

Russellc
 
Russellc said:
I will have to try that. i tried it with the altec 802 8G on the 511B, didnt sound as good as the crossover I already had in the A7. I only have the screw on 220 ti, so I'll have to use an adapter....

Russellc
Click to expand...

Oops. You'd want the bolt-on for a 511. The adapter adds too much length to the throat. Might work, but I'd guess it'll change the response...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Screw on adapter

Russellc said:
I will have to try that. i tried it with the altec 802 8G on the 511B, didnt sound as good as the crossover I already had in the A7. I only have the screw on 220 ti, so I'll have to use an adapter....

Russellc
Click to expand...

I am looking at the adapter that PE sells and it looks like it could be modified to flush the driver to the flange face by tapping the threads farther toward the flange face and then relieving / the appropriate amount to allow the correct interface. Doable but APITA with correct tools required all to move the driver forward a few mm's - 3/8"...

But it is hard to believe that there is not an existing correctly engineered adapter out there that allows the driver to be flushed to the flange face....:yes:

Any body seen a good flush factory adapter?:scratch2:
 
Zilch said:
The only other "Official" waveguide is the 6" square JBL PT at this point, with the 8" square PT and QSC pending, though we have used the larger Dayton elliptical, 18-Sound XT120 and XT1086, and JBL OASR in other projects and threads here on AK. The JBL PRX horn also appears workable:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/PRX Series/PRX512M.pdf

All of these require adjustments to the core eWave crossover.... :yes:
Click to expand...

GordonW said:
The Altec 511B sure seemed to work. That would imply that they Pyle PH714 should also work (same basic shape, just with better dispersion in the PH714).

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your responses, I have decided (after much waffling) to go with the QSC waveguide. Even though it still "pending" as an official waveguide it seems like a few have had success with it. I am going to make a horrible generalization and say that I tend to like the sound of larger horns over smaller. I am going to mate this with my LE14A's in something like a 5 cu ft cabinet like Duffinator did.

Now I need to decide whether to go with the B&C DE250 or try the bolt on D220ti. It seems like one of you has used the LE14A/QSC/DE250 combo with some success, I just can't find who it was. If any of you have tried this combo and made it work could you please let me know what modifications you made to the crossover? Please?:)
 
GordonW said:
Oops. You'd want the bolt-on for a 511. The adapter adds too much length to the throat. Might work, but I'd guess it'll change the response...

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

I was afraid of that, oh well I'll give it a go since everythings here and all.:scratch2:

russellc
 
JoMoCo said:
I am looking at the adapter that PE sells and it looks like it could be modified to flush the driver to the flange face by tapping the threads farther toward the flange face and then relieving / the appropriate amount to allow the correct interface. Doable but APITA with correct tools required all to move the driver forward a few mm's - 3/8"...

But it is hard to believe that there is not an existing correctly engineered adapter out there that allows the driver to be flushed to the flange face....:yes:

Any body seen a good flush factory adapter?:scratch2:
Click to expand...

Mine is which ever one everyone was talking about when the screw on vs adaptor on screw on response abnormality thing came up. Mine screws all the way down even with the surface of the plate that mounts it to the bolt on flange of the horn. But, you still have the little threaded tube part that would have been inside the end of a screw on waveguide. Now the sound must go through a slightly longer length before playing into the waveguide. so even if flush wouldnt it still cause the problem?

I have wondered about my JBL 2425H. I received them as screw on versions, but it looks like the "nose piece" that is on the bolt on versions would just mount right on. I havent had a bolt on version in my hand to disassemble in a long time, does this nose piece come off on the bolt on versions, leaving the
"screw on" part exposed? Or are they totally different like the 220 ti screw on vs. bolt on?

Russellc
 
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