Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[similost]

So better prices on them, or a better driver than the AE drivers?

 

[vlad335]

Thanks for the link Zilch. Very helpful.

One speaker done. One to go.

Man there are some cheap components in these. The crossovers have tiny coils and the cheapest caps imaginable. Taking a look at the woofers I am really surprised I havent blown them yet. wonder what would be a good 6.5" upgrade?

 

[Zilch]

I have no experience with AE drivers, though they're on the list.

By "lucky," I mean to find LE14H-3 at all.

You'll pay ~$300 apiece for them, if they have any, Part# 336321-001.

[Get on the wait list, if there is one.... :yes: ]

 

[similost]

Yeah.. I know they are rare and hard to find Zilch.. I was even looking around for a few used speakers that use the LE14H to see if I might get lucky there too.. .

I do really like the looks of those AE drivers, and I did happen to find a chart where someone measured them along side the LE14 drivers, and they looked very impressive.. actually a hair better..

Either way.. LE14's new, or the AE drivers, I'm looking at pretty much the same price it appears..

 

[Zilch]

Thanks for the link Zilch. Very helpful.

One speaker done. One to go.

Looking good.

They altered the dimensions on the Dayton ellipticals since I upgraded KLH17s with them, but those appear to be a perfect fit.... :thmbsp:

 

[Zilch]

Yeah.. I know they are rare and hard to find Zilch.. I was even looking around for a few used speakers that use the LE14H to see if I might get lucky there too....

It's LE14H-1 is the earlier equivalent of LE14H-3, not LE14H, which is ferrite-magnet LE14A, basically.... :yes:

 

[similost]

I keep coming back to one thing about the LE14A, and that's the fact they have foams that will probably need to be replaced, and I'm just not a big fan of speakers with foam surrounds.. I know they are great drivers, but I'd rather have a paper or cloth surround..

I also know how hard the LE14H-3 or even 1 would be to come by, and if I am going to do this, I would rather buy new drivers, and know exactly what I'm getting than take my chances with something that may have been abused and over heated...

I dropped WhiteSE a PM about the AE TD15M drivers he bought to see what his impressions of them are... If I could find a pair of the JBL drivers new, I would like to go that route, but I want to check all my options too...

I've already been running the costs by my wife, and she seems fine and dandy with it, so long as they do trash the sound my the C36's and they are in the Barzilay cabs.

Wadda ya know.. WAF has become an issue for me because she has decided she wants mission furniture in the living room, and she says the Barzilay cabs will look the best so she wants those, but doesn't like the sound of them as they are..

 

[EarlK]

It's LE14H-1 is the earlier equivalent of LE14H-3, not LE14H, which is ferrite-magnet LE14A, basically....

- Yes, the Le14H(a) has a shorter voice-coil resulting in a different spectral balance ( bass to mid ) when compared to the Le14H-1(3) .
- The "H" is also a couple of db more effcient than the "H-1,H-3" .

- The plain "H" has less Xmax than the H-(1,3 or 4) .

- The Le14H-4 ( which has a longer voice coil than the "H" ) appears to be the modern equivalent to the Le14H .

- I quite like the Le14H and would buy the "H-4" based on my experience with the Le14H .

<> cheers

 

[Zilch]

LE14H-3 is butyl surround, and you have virtually no option but to buy new; I don't imagine anybody's parting out 1400 Array or the Array sub.

Those woofers with BMS 4555 on the 1.5" PT-F95HF in Barzilay cabs will kick not only your C36s, but your VOTTs, as well, to the curb.... :tongue:

 

[similost]

Well.. I've already decided the 36's have kicked the **** outta my Altecs as far as full range eveness with less holes in the sound, and a better top end, but I'm still gonna keep those around for any heavy duty R&R high pressure listening I need to do.. I gave them a listen the other night, and you just can't beat the slam of that whole rig...

I didn't realize the -3 was also butyl. Interesting.. and then now here comes a newer version it sounds like, the -4.. wonder if those are any easier to find?

Thanks for the part number for the waveguide. That was going to be one of my next questions was what to get for those particular drivers to fit on..

 

[vlad335]

Looking good.

They altered the dimensions on the Dayton ellipticals since I upgraded KLH17s with them, but those appear to be a perfect fit.... :thmbsp:

Thanks man. I made a spacer out of baltic birch and painted it with Duratex. Lots of WAF attached to this project so I had to make the transition look at least half decent. Plus had to figure out a way to transition back without hacking up the speakers. The wife loves the look of these things with the piano black tops and copper woofers so I think I may have to work with them.

The woofers are 6 ohm units that are wired parallel so they are going to get a workout hooked up to my QSC PLX1202. Havent even heard this Waveguide setup yet but already looking for replacements. One of the considerations is they have to look interesting

 

[Zilch]

Thanks for the part number for the waveguide. That was going to be one of my next questions was what to get for those particular drivers to fit on....

That's the descriptor, not the part number. They come from JBL Pro Parts, Part# 338650-001, $113 each MSRP on the current price list, so you're pushing $1200 with crossovers yet to be included, so ~$1500 before you're done.

[Sounds to me like you're covered, tho.... ]

- I quite like the Le14H and would buy the "H-4" based on my experience with the Le14H .

I'd love to get ahold of a pair to measure and try.

Took me almost a year to land H-3s.

[PM me the "secret source." ]

 

[similost]

I had just found that part number, but hadn't gotten to look at a price,.. wow.. those aren't cheap either... OK.. I had figured I'd like to do this for around a grand, but that sure don't look possible...

SO, then my next question comes... if I'm dropping $1500 into this project, will I be getting that kind of money's worth of sound... but then again, I guess I don't need that answered when I figure what I have invested in my Altecs and know what those sound like...

I am going to put a few things up for sale to help fund this, so it wouldn't be too painful on the bank.. I need to get some crap outta the house anyway..

It will be a little while before I have everything acquired, but once I do, I'll be bugging you for the crossover info and parts too.. Don't ya love me when I get a hair up my ass?

 

[Vaughn]

I've ordered all of the parts for my DE250/QSC/LE14A Ewaves but I want to make sure I am on track with the correct crossover components...

I changed nothing for the low pass and ordered the parts for the LE14A for the 900hz crossover.

For the high pass I ordered the stock parts for the 900hz crossover except for C1 (4uf instead of 4.7) and L1 (.9mh instead of .6). I am taking this info from post #8592(!). I realize this exact combo hasn't been officially worked out but does this seem like a reasonable starting place or should I make some changes?

 

[Zilch]

For the high pass I ordered the stock parts for the 900hz crossover except for C1 (4uf instead of 4.7) and L1 (.9mh instead of .6). I am taking this info from post #8592(!). I realize this exact combo hasn't been officially worked out but does this seem like a reasonable starting place or should I make some changes?

That's a good start, based upon Jack's work.

What I'm doing is optimizing for DC300 woofers the hard way, which may or may not translate to a more generalized highpass. In any case, it would appear that standard eWave XO topology is applicable. Brandon has yet to weigh in on a passive design, and nobody's documented QSC's approach. It'd be cool if some of the "modelers" became interested, too; I'm still at the bottom of that learning curve....

 

[Vaughn]

Thanks Zilch!

I realize the whole thing is a work in progress, which of course adds to the fun of it (for me anyway). Hopefully I will actually understand something at some point

I wish I could get more out of the graphs you take so much time to generate but, being color blind, they are a bit of a mystery.

Now I need to start scrounging some wood for those cabinets!

 

[Zilch]

I wish I could get more out of the graphs you take so much time to generate but, being color blind, they are a bit of a mystery.

I don't know that anybody has ever previously shown such a presentation. I just closed all the tabs, 'cause I would spend the rest of the day just listening and clicking between them instead of progressing with the design.

Cool stuff....

 

[similost]

I've been looking at this picture here and doing a little thinking and reading... (BTW, Steve is in my area, and would be cool to give these a listen since I couldn't make that gathering he just had this past month)

These are the same cabs I would be putting mine in. I've also been reading a little about baffle spacing and such...

So if I were to use something like the TD15M along with the wave guide you pointed out Zilch, am I going to have a problem trying to fit a 15" driver with that waveguide in the baffle? I didn't get the measurements on the WG.... just trying to decide if there is room in the baffle for both, and if there is, would there be any problems with the sound if they are placed too close together?

Or would be be better off building a cab like above and placing the horn WG in that?

I really need to get the idea of this project nailed down before I present the final idea to the wife. She already has an idea of the cost, but I don't know if the WG on top is going to be acceptable if that's the way it would need to be done.

 

[EarlK]

Le14H-4

Took me almost a year to land H-3s.

[PM me the "secret source." ]

Huh ? I thought you were my "secret source" .

 

[Zilch]

You need to lay out the baffle and see.

I probably would not use a 15" woofer, but you might be able to make it all fit.

Go listen to Steve's eWaves.... :yes: