Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[fastbike]

Try WinISD or UniBox

I've done some modeling for cabs that are similar and am guessing that your -3dB point is somewhere between 45 and 50Hz. A smallish port should be able to get the -3dB down to 35 or 36 Hz w/ a box tuning of 28 - 30 Hz. As Zilch says, everything depends on the woofer parameters, so these are just "maybe" ballpark estimates. I've done some modeling of a Model 15 clone w/ a Dayton DC300 and get a -3dB of 35 Hz w/ a 2" dia x 1.75" port. Quoting from memory so precision is not guaranteed.

Also if I might ask if they do need ported what size,how many? I know there are programs to use but dont have them, may not know how even. Cabinets are Approx. 14 x 18 1/2 x 22 1/2 internal.

 

[Stephen J]

Aristowave progress

Here are a couple of pics of todays activities. I will be taking the boards to a friends shop so he can knock out the holes real purty like. :yes:
I had a thought while doing this stuff. I may need him to route a recess for the horn. The way that the cover slides on the front of the Aristocrat is not very forgiving.The alternative would be to mount the wave guide to the back of the baffle. :scratch2:
This first baffle may very well become a template.

 

[Russellc]

Here are a couple of pics of todays activities. I will be taking the boards to a friends shop so he can knock out the holes real purty like. :yes:
I had a thought while doing this stuff. I may need him to route a recess for the horn. The way that the cover slides on the front of the Aristocrat is not very forgiving.The alternative would be to mount the wave guide to the back of the baffle. :scratch2:
This first baffle may very well become a template.

Nice e'wav'in there! congrats!:thmbsp:

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

I have the following woofers for whoever want to use them for the econowave project - you just need to pay for the actual shipping cost. Please PM me if you are interested.

A pair of Sansui 12" woofers - these are pretty efficient at about mid 90. I can't remember what model they came out of.

A pair of Alnico 12" woofers from W70 speakers. One speaker has been refoam, the other is in original condition. They both sound the same.

A pair of vintage KLH 10" woofers - I can't remember what model they came out of -->> These are taken by juniorJBL

Added to the list:
A pair of 8" Dayton woofers

Looks like JuniorJBL gonna be doing some more E'waving as well,
keep them coming!:yes:

russellc

 

[juniorJBL]

I figure they should work well with the 6X6.

 

[Zilch]

Here are a couple of pics of todays activities. I will be taking the boards to a friends shop so he can knock out the holes real purty like. :yes:

1) Flush mount the waveguide to the front of the baffle as per your first thought. Rear-mounting it will create issues with diffraction, and I would not do that. See some of the recess-mounted waveguide projects built by Jackgiff and others in this thread.

2) Cut the opening for the woofer just a bit larger than its OUTSIDE diameter and glue a speaker ring or adapter board to the rear side of the baffle having the requisite opening for front mounting the woofer. This recesses the woofer within the plane of the baffle as shown here:

For a "finished" look, roundover the face of the opening.

Speaker rings are commonly used in custom car installs and available inexpensively on eBay. Search "MDF Speaker Rings" there, and you'll find seller rds2480 offering 12" x 3/4" thick rings for $9.49 + $5.49 US shipping per pair. I.D. = 11.125", O.D. = 12.625"

Alternatively, you can rout a recess and flush mount the woofers similarly to the waveguides, but that will require thickening the baffle in the woofer area:

520311/9145=56.8947​

 

[donprice]

....Still need to paint screw heads on horns. Couldnt find black ones at Lowes or Menards....

Nice work! :thmbsp:

Quick tip for black screws....stick them half-way into some cardboard and spray paint them. Simple, cheap, and always the size you need.

 

[Stephen J]

1) Flush mount the waveguide to the front of the baffle as per your first thought. Rear-mounting it will create issues with diffraction, and I would not do that. See some of the recess-mounted waveguide projects built by Jackgiff and others in this thread.

2) Cut the opening for the woofer just a bit larger than its OUTSIDE diameter and glue a speaker ring or adapter board to the rear side of the baffle having the requisite opening for front mounting the woofer. This recesses the woofer within the plane of the baffle as shown here:

For a "finished" look, roundover the face of the opening.

Speaker rings are commonly used in custom car installs and available inexpensively on eBay. Search "MDF Speaker Rings" there, and you'll find seller rds2480 offering 12" x 3/4" thick rings for $9.49 + $5.49 US shipping per pair. I.D. = 11.125", O.D. = 12.625"

Alternatively, you can rout a recess and flush mount the woofers similarly to the waveguides, but that will require thickening the baffle in the woofer area:

520311/9145=56.8947​

Yeah, I was afraid there would be an issue with rear mounting.... I am going to have 2 new baffles made as these are a little short.'bout 1 /4 '' so I'm going to play with these, figure out exactly what I want and leave the stuff with my friend at his shop. He said he would make a jig and route the recess for the wave guide. Then I will ad some reinforcement to the back side of the baffle around the area the wave guide is mounted to. Or I may go the speaker ring route...we'll see !

 

[marantzfan]

The standard eWaveguide in the trapezoid cabs is next, and we've accumulated quite a lineup of alternative woofers to try:

DC300
123A
2206H
2214H
128H-1
D123
KappaLite II 3012
HPM-100
Peerless
Pioneer
B&C
Altec 414
AE TD12x

Others.... :thmbsp:

I have started looking at this project again, and now with the pre-cut cabinets available I might be ready to do this one soon.

If you don't mind my asking, of the afore mentioned woofers, which had the best results?

 

[Zilch]

Then I will ad some reinforcement to the back side of the baffle around the area the wave guide is mounted to. Or I may go the speaker ring route...we'll see !

No reinforcement required for the waveguide, most likely; it's the woofer area that requires it for flush or recessed mounting.

If you don't mind my asking, of the afore mentioned woofers, which had the best results?

I am rocking with 123A-1/2213H here presently, and the HPM-100 woofer is about the same, though you'll have to enlarge the stock woofer cutout a bit to get the HPMs in there front-mounted.

I'm determined to get DC300 working well in these, and am gearing up filter sim software to help with accomplishing that. They sound mighty fine in these cabs; it's just a matter of working out the crossover details.

Brandon (Augerpro) used the HO variant of KappaLite 3012 in his No Quarters, so we know they work, but he hasn't come up with a passive XO for them yet. The LF version I'm trying is indeterminate as yet; they're on B/O 'til the end of the week at PE....

 

[Matt34]

The standard eWaveguide in the trapezoid cabs is next, and we've accumulated quite a lineup of alternative woofers to try:

DC300
123A
2206H
2214H
128H-1
D123
KappaLite II 3012
HPM-100
Peerless
Pioneer
B&C
Altec 414
AE TD12x

Others.... :thmbsp:

Looking forward to your findings. I'm by no means a speaker designer but I can ride someone's coat tails and follow directions like a monkey. Duffinator recommended I follow your lead on this.:thmbsp:

 

[Bauhausler]

Nice work! :thmbsp:

Quick tip for black screws....stick them half-way into some cardboard and spray paint them. Simple, cheap, and always the size you need.

If they're already on and you want them black, dab some India ink on them wit ha small paint brush. It's a glossy purplish black. Works on transformer laminations as well.

 

[Stephen J]

400 hz ? ?

How about an inexpensive wave guide ( mid )that goes down to 400hz ?

 

[JoMoCo]

Ewave Plus...More Cash

How about an inexpensive wave guide ( mid )that goes down to 400hz ?

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/PRX Series/PRX535.pdf

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3&docid=1220

I think the first two pics are from the JBL SR4735x. Zilch correct me If I am wrong...:scratch2:

That last pic looks to be a JBL Pro products "Precision Directivity" effort to make a full range product from a 1.5" HF driver and a 12" LF Driver from approx 2003...verify the parts #'s for yourself if you are so inclined...

The whole three way vs. two way is really for another thread...but very interesting:guitar:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19692&page=2

 

[Bauhausler]

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/PRX Series/PRX535.pdf

I think these pics are from the JBL SR4735x. Zilch correct me If I am wrong...:scratch2:

verify the parts #'s for yourself if you are so inclined...

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19692&page=2

That might be the one that Jackgiff tried, though looking at it I think his had wider spacing.

Probably not cheap. Might find a copy of the 511 somewhere, but it's not CD.

 

[Zilch]

The combo one is used in several products. There are two or three different "loads" for them.

The inquiry was for a midhorn only. In that PRX product, the midhorn (~$15, as I recall,) is separate and mated to an eWaveguide for a less expensive combination. It uses a closed-back Eminence mid driver, i.e., is not CMCD; there's no phase plug in that setup.

The CMCD ones are madly efficient, like 107 dB, and thus require biamping the HF section to compensate it.... :yes:

 

[Stephen J]

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/PRX Series/PRX535.pdf

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3&docid=1220

I think the first two pics are from the JBL SR4735x. Zilch correct me If I am wrong...:scratch2:

That last pic looks to be a JBL Pro products "Precision Directivity" effort to make a full range product from a 1.5" HF driver and a 12" LF Driver from approx 2003...verify the parts #'s for yourself if you are so inclined...

The whole three way vs. two way is really for another thread...but very interesting:guitar:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19692&page=2

Right now I'm just looking for some help finding a part.....

 

[rage]

Hey Similost, whats the holdup?

I'm anxiously awaiting your build. Particularly your thoughts on the woofers you ordered, and how the combination compares to your previous setup!!

To the rest of you, what option is there for us with the JBL 1" screw on waveguide in the higher end department? I see the DE250 and BMS drivers are bolt on. I have adapters, but these cause problems? Can I hack the end off the waveguide and epoxy my bolt on adapter to them?

 

[Vaughn]

Rewave!

I just finished my second pair and stayed up late listening

The B&C driver is definitely a step up from the the Selenium, in my opinion. Right now I just have the QSC waveguides perched on top of the bass bins and the crossovers assembled with patented "Zilchnutz". The cabinet is baltic birch with full length mahogany glue blocks screwed to every interior corner with bracing between each wall. Thanks for your help with the rectangular port, Zilch. I really like the way it stiffened up the panel below the woofer.

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[similost]

Hey Similost, whats the holdup?

I'm anxiously awaiting your build. Particularly your thoughts on the woofers you ordered, and how the combination compares to your previous setup!!

To the rest of you, what option is there for us with the JBL 1" screw on waveguide in the higher end department? I see the DE250 and BMS drivers are bolt on. I have adapters, but these cause problems? Can I hack the end off the waveguide and epoxy my bolt on adapter to them?

I'm waiting on the drivers. They should be here on the 18th, but since my office is closed that day, I'll be getting them on the 19th..

Then comes the part about buying the horn drivers. I'm going to be holding off on those until I sell my Altec's. Spent a butt load on a new vehicle, so priorities change.....

I never intended to have these finished soon, but now they will be a little longer..