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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

rage said:
To the rest of you, what option is there for us with the JBL 1" screw on waveguide in the higher end department? I see the DE250 and BMS drivers are bolt on. I have adapters, but these cause problems? Can I hack the end off the waveguide and epoxy my bolt on adapter to them?
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I routinely use BMS 4552nd with throat adapters, but that requires different filters. Jack's working with the 4540Nd, but that and the small JBL drivers 2408H and 2414H are best suited for use at higher crossover frequencies.

Even though it uses the same diaphragm as D220Ti, I consider D2500Ti-Nd an upgrade. It's time that somebody worked through dusting them with Aquaplas.

Otherwise, you can see our basic approach to bolt-on drivers has been alternative waveguides. It's also possible to install a bolt-on flange to the standard eWave ones, but no experimenter has proven a geometry for accomplishing that yet.... :dunno:
 
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The best sound system I have is a 20 year old Technics system, yeah, I know!! I have an old pair of Sony SS-U511AV floor speakers dying to be "fixed" thrown out or "EWAVED". The cheap Sony's have a 10" woofer and a 10"passive radiator. I was thinking of either refoaming or adding Dayton classic 10", adding .5" to baffle and Ewaving, keeping the "affordable" as part of the plan, or building a new box altogether. What do you guys think??? Are the original Sony cabs worth a try is the fundamental question??? This thread makes melose sleep, a lot to read and learn. KUDOS!!!




Tony
 
Refoam and try them. You don't have to do anything but invert them, set eWave on them, and connect to the woofers to hear what they'll do.... :thmbsp:
 
How does the ND-2500 compare with the DE250 and BMS? I suspect in about the order I just typed. :)

The 1.5" JBL waveguides Simiost is buying won't get him a lower crossover point, will they?

I'm thinking of trying different drivers and just pondering my options here. I already have the JBL 1" WGs so would like to stay with them, but am not opposed to another wg.

If the BMS is way ahead of the 2500TI and DE250 I may just go that route.
 
They list the BMS 4555 I'm going to use as 500hz.. I seriously doubt I'll cross it that low.. I'm thinking maybe around 1khz
 
rage said:
How does the ND-2500 compare with the DE250 and BMS? I suspect in about the order I just typed.
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D2500Ti-Nd uses the same diaphragm as D220Ti, and has the same response curve. The distortion curve appears to be better on the Nd; the difference is subtle, but I believe I can make an argument that it's equivalent to adding a shorting ring since ND is electrically conductive. I also prefer the smaller form factor with the smaller waveguides.

The Selenium diaphragms are titanium, the B&C, Kapton, and the BMS, Mylar, each of which has its distinctive sonic character in addition to any other differences. The BMS, being a re-entrant ring radiator, is very much different from the others in this respect, which are more conventional in design.

As you've seen, these are not "plug 'n' play"; each combo requires optimization of the electrical filters for best performance, although Wayne's topology is adaptive to accomplishing this.... :yes:
 
similost said:
They list the BMS 4555 I'm going to use as 500hz.. I seriously doubt I'll cross it that low.. I'm thinking maybe around 1khz
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Yes, but it wont mount to the waveguides he's contemplating, isnt that 4555 an 1.5 inch throat driver?

Cant wait to see you get under way, those AE woofers are way cool!:thmbsp:

russellc
 
Yes, ,the 4555 is a 1.5 driver. THe person that was asking mentioned the guides I had, and if they will cross lower.. and in this case, yes they will with my driver, but I don't think it would be a good thing to do...

I can't wait to get those drivers.. I just wanna stare at them.. they sure look pretty in pictures..
 
They look great. I like the rectangular port. Mine are smaller versions of those, KDTrap cab and 123A-1. Waveguide on top like yours. I always like seeing the driver/guide on top, but it is a PITA to move around.

Those cabs look awesome.:thmbsp:


Vaughn said:
I just finished my second pair and stayed up late listening:banana:

The B&C driver is definitely a step up from the the Selenium, in my opinion. Right now I just have the QSC waveguides perched on top of the bass bins and the crossovers assembled with patented "Zilchnutz". The cabinet is baltic birch with full length mahogany glue blocks screwed to every interior corner with bracing between each wall. Thanks for your help with the rectangular port, Zilch. I really like the way it stiffened up the panel below the woofer.

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Thanks for the positive comments...

Initially I had some idea to make a removable top section for the waveguide and crossover and style the whole thing after the Altec Model 19. To that end I made a stepped feature in the top of the bass bin to allow the top removable portion to "socket" into place. Then I started playing with the placement of the waveguide and it seemed to have better focus and soundstage placement with the centers closer and the waveguide about 1" in front of the baffle. The sound is just stunning as is and I think the only place I could go from here is perhaps a BMS driver with 1.5" exit and a high quality 15" woofer(AE or possibly 2235). I suppose I will have to build a bracket or something a little more permanent to prevent the waveguide from being knocked off. For now I am happy!:tresbon:
 
Know that we're not done with the QSC/DE250 yet; several of us are booting up some crossover modeling tools for working further with it.... :thmbsp:
 
upgrading to econo(wave)..

zog666 said:
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Excellent, thanks for that, this will give me some brainfood to chew on over the Xmas hols.. I made it with the crossovers outside the cabinets so I can get at them easily when I have a go at applying this.
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I tried a number of approaches with the Pyle PDS221.. and the general result was the flatter I got it's response.. the lower the output, to the level that I would have had to LPAD the woofer down to match.. which just seems wrong (though I could use the LPAD to keep my coffee warm).

So I threw in the towel and ordered a pair of Selenium D220Ti from the USA and implemented a variation of the econowave crossover.

First thing I notice is the Selenium comp driver has easily 8 to 10 dB more output than the Pyle.. well on paper its 7 dB.. which is spelled out comparing the specs but it didnt occur to me at the time... essentially the techniques that flatten the response of the Selenium make the Pyle too quiet.

After a bit of measurement with ARTA and messing with speaker workshop I went with the lower efficiency woofer circuit, but stuck with the first order lowpass (1.93 mH) I've been using as it seems to work well with the Pioneer woofer.

I'm attenuating the d220ti using a 22 ohm shunt resistor in parallel. Modelling a 'proper' (shunt+series) LPAD in Speaker Workshop gave a much lower output than I expected?

SOUNDS GREAT! first thing I noticed was previously unheard reverb and detail in 'Emmeleia' by Dead Can Dance.. acoustic music and bassy abstract techno all sound lush and wonderful.

My prototype crossover on it's mangy bit of cardboard starting to look very lived in, I think this is my 6th or 7th rebuild of it.. though now I think I'm at the stage where I can resolder it properly using a bit of masonite as a base.. also I've made up a few of the component values by combining others (e.g. the 30ohm resistor is 2 x 15 ohm 5W )

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Who's gettin' foamy?

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See the current state of mine- in the throat there is a wedge of 30 ppi reticulated foam (a la geddes) and the outside "foam frame" is made of open-cell laptop packing foam. The idea, naturally, is to damp edge diffraction of the mouth, and this is accomplished both by the beveled profile and the lossy nature of the foam.

I'll try to get measures up soonish but I'm still working on XO optimization.
 
rage said:
very cool badman! how does it sound?

did you make or buy the phase plug in the woofer?
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It sounds superb, but was no slouch prior to the foam. It does seem to create a smoother response at the bottom end (1-2k range) but that's just guessing, I haven't measured.

I made the phase plug. The driver mods are essentially the home-version of what Dave at Planet 10 Hifi does. The 8" is a Pioneer B20 fullranger, and you can see some mild waveguiding in the baffle.
 
Kegger made little foam inserts for the throat of the horn. It is about the size of a quarter and works really well for smoothing out the highs at high volumes. He made his, and mine, out of black foam and you can't ever see it.
 
Zilch said:
Know that we're not done with the QSC/DE250 yet; several of us are booting up some crossover modeling tools for working further with it.... :thmbsp:
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I wait with baited breath...:yes:

I keep thinking the next improvement I would like to make would be stepping up in driver quality but I think what I really need to do is start saving for some basic test equipment. I have been building speakers for about 20 years now without any real quantifiable feedback on what I have made! I would love to be part of the solution generation part of this equation rather than continually asking "will this work with that?".

I've said it before and am saying it again; thanks to all of you who have worked so hard on bringing this to the masses, I simply couldn't afford a speaker of this quality any other way!:D

P.S. Is anyone aware of good speaker design software available for a Mac?
 
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