Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Cosmos]

Currently, I have JBL LE85 running on Econo-waveguides (PylePro), but with an active crossover. They sound great!!! While that may be outside the scope of this thread, I have one question:

Does anyone have an idea what the useful lower frequency limit is of the Econo waveguide?

Ok two questions:

Is there a larger variation of the EWG in 1"? What about 2"

Wave on...

 

[Zilch]

Does anyone have an idea what the useful lower frequency limit is of the Econo waveguide?

"Loading" wise, ~1 kHz, though I've successfully driven the 1.5" version lower than that with large-format drivers.

Problem is, this small waveguide has long since lost pattern control in the vertical down there. See Augerpro's polar data to estimate the usable dispersion.

OT: I agree. LE85 is especially sweet on these.... :yes:

 

[Cosmos]

OT: I agree. LE85 is especially sweet on these.... :yes:

Yes, they're rockin' sweet on top of JBL 2226 in 4507 cabs :yes:

FWIW, I have a Behringer DCX2496 crossover remote controlled by laptop via USB to serial cable.. It's so nice to sit and listen and play with slopes, XO, delay/ phase.. all from the listening position.. What an experience. :thmbsp:

 

[Zilch]

Is there a larger variation of the EWG in 1"?

The 12" square 1.5" ones have vertical pattern control extending lower. That also adds a couple of inches to the C/C distance, however, and the vertical nulls encroach more.

From there, you move up to the huge Screen Array waveguide and deal with its boosted on-axis VHF response using a perfed grille.

FWIW, I have a Behringer DCX2496 crossover remote controlled by laptop via USB to serial cable.. It's so nice to sit and listen and play with slopes, XO, delay/ phase.. all from the listening position.. What an experience. :thmbsp:

You're a couple of giant steps ahead of me in seeking out fun factor here....

 

[rage]

Similost:

I have smaller JBL waveguide for 1" compression driver. Hence my selection of the 4552.

I think I'm going to order 1 DE 250 and 1 D2500Ti from PE. They have a 45 day return period.

Worst (and most likely) case I'll buy a set of each.

I don't know if I can bring myself to spend the extra dough on the BMS...yet.

I can see it now... 3 sets of e-waves.

 

[Zilch]

I can see it now... 3 sets of e-waves.

As others have abundantly demonstrated, stuff happens.... :tongue:

 

[doucanoe]

With all the ewaving going on here using many compression drivers, I thought someone might have a little background knowledge of this.

I picked up a pair of B&C DE25's not long ago and although I haven't opened them up to check, they reportedly have Mylar diaphragms. I was chatting with Russellc yesterday about them and his DE250's. I mentioned that I had checked out some european suppliers and they showed the DE250 as having Titanium. He said that his DE250's have Polyimide. I then checked Parts Express and they identify the DE250 as Polyimide also.


Anyone have experience with the DE25 and DE250 care to share what they feel the differences are between them. Also, the differences between these two diaphragm materials?

I'm guessing that that the DE250 w/Titanium diaphragm might be for European distribution possibly. That or the site info. may be incorrect

http://www.cadaudio.dk/bcspeakers.htm



RC

 

[Jcricket]

barzilay/klipsch ewave

Hey folks, I have finally measured exactly the size of my cabinet, and found it is right at 3.5 cubic feet. Way too small for hte 16" woofers I was trying to use. I located a set of K-22 12" woofers. I can't find the tsp's on these - anyone know? ANyone every built an ewave with these woofers?
I should get them today or tomorrow and I'll install them at that time.

So anyone got a link or a copy of the theile small parameters for this woofer? I didn't find it on the klipsch site.

Edit,
I found my answer here. A quote from GordonW
"The K22 has a straight-sided (pure conic section) plain-paper (no coating or treating) cone, with a relatively un-damped fabric surround. This causes, sometimes, some bad breakup modes... sometimes well below 1KHz, in a 12" driver. The paper dustcap on most of these woofers also tends to "ring" a bit, which doesn't help either. Up to the factory Heresy crossover point (which is around 650 Hz, IIRC?) it's OK... but that's about as high as you can go, without response aberrations.
"
Bummer

 

[rage]

The K23K is a whole different animal.

Results and measurements to come.

 

[similost]

hhhmm.. sounds like your Barzilay isn't the same one I'm using..

 

[Jcricket]

hhhmm.. sounds like your Barzilay isn't the same one I'm using..

Looks very close in the pics, but it is a little smaller. The dc300-8 looks like an ideal fit for this cabinet. I may just go ahead and go that routte. I do have an appointment to go look at this set of cabinets tonight. They are about 6.5 cubic feet.

They are a bout 24" wide, 20" deep, and 33" tall. They way over 50lbs empty. I think they are a solid cabinet. Anyone know who made them.
BTW - my cost is $10 and a six pack of killian's:yes:

 

[similost]

Ah.. no.. not the same as mine.. I was just wondering if you made a math error...

 

[Jcricket]

Ah.. no.. not the same as mine.. I was just wondering if you made a math error...

NOpe, no error. I actually opened them up and took measurements of the inside(rounding to the 1/4") and then calculated it out. Roughly 17" square and about 20" high are the dimensions.

 

[Dr. Beaker]

My Barzilay cabinets are also 3.5 ish cubic feet.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2941265&highlight=barzilay#post2941265

The JBL LE14A's are wonderfull in there. The Dayton 12 may also be a winner.

 

[Jcricket]

Anyone ever try to do a three way ewave of sorts? I have asked this before and not gotten a definate yes or no. Here is a very high level idea of what i am thinking. The pupose is to open up the possibilities of what woofes a person could use.
With this, you could possibly even use a subwoofer as the bass and a nice mdrange to fill upto the 1.2k hz range.

 

[donprice]

Anyone ever try to do a three way ewave of sorts? I have asked this before and not gotten a definate yes or no. Here is a very high level idea of what i am thinking. The pupose is to open up the possibilities of what woofes a person could use.
With this, you could possibly even use a subwoofer as the bass and a nice mdrange to fill upto the 1.2k hz range.

Mid-bass eWave and subwoofer is a slam dunk, particularly for home theater. :thmbsp: Just use a plate amp with built-in crossover to drive the subwoofer.

Trying to incorporate a 3-way passive crossover just sounds like more work.

 

[GOYA]

Anyone ever try to do a three way ewave of sorts? I have asked this before and not gotten a definate yes or no. Here is a very high level idea of what i am thinking. The pupose is to open up the possibilities of what woofes a person could use.
With this, you could possibly even use a subwoofer as the bass and a nice mdrange to fill upto the 1.2k hz range.

Yes, I'm using an active 3-way with the Econowave horns on top. I have the Vifa P13 as the mid. I'm currently using my DCM TF-600 for the bottom but have Dayton RSS315HF-4 12" drivers to replace them. I still need cabinets for everything. The mids are currently mounted in stuffed cardboard boxes.

I'm crossing at 300 Hz and 2.5k Hz.

 

[Jcricket]

Yes, I'm using an active 3-way with the Econowave horns on top. I have the Vifa P13 as the mid. I'm currently using my DCM TF-600 for the bottom but have Dayton RSS315HF-4 12" drivers to replace them. I still need cabinets for everything. The mids are currently mounted in stuffed cardboard boxes.

I'm crossing at 300 Hz and 2.5k Hz.

So when you put this into a cabinet, are you going to continue with an active or go to a passive crossover?

 

[Brett]

With all the ewaving going on here using many compression drivers, I thought someone might have a little background knowledge of this.

I picked up a pair of B&C DE25's not long ago and although I haven't opened them up to check, they reportedly have Mylar diaphragms. I was chatting with Russellc yesterday about them and his DE250's. I mentioned that I had checked out some european suppliers and they showed the DE250 as having Titanium. He said that his DE250's have Polyimide. I then checked Parts Express and they identify the DE250 as Polyimide also.


Anyone have experience with the DE25 and DE250 care to share what they feel the differences are between them. Also, the differences between these two diaphragm materials?

I'm guessing that that the DE250 w/Titanium diaphragm might be for European distribution possibly. That or the site info. may be incorrect

http://www.cadaudio.dk/bcspeakers.htm



RC

There are factory replacement diaphragms in Ti for both drivers, so maybe they are bought in that way special order, or the dealer changes them out. When I bought my replacement phrams for the DE25, most sites showed the Ti as the replacement unit, and I had to be specific about wanting the poly only.

I have both the 25 and 250 but they are used in different systems so I don't know what the differences between them are beyond the datasheets. I may get around to doing independent measurements on them later as part of the final setup for the current (glacial) builds and do some extra measurements of the DE25 on the QSC 106 WGs.

However, if you decide you ever want to sell the DE25's, remember me as I have another design I'd like to build and the passive xover is designed for them.

 

[GOYA]

So when you put this into a cabinet, are you going to continue with an active or go to a passive crossover?

Stay active. The benefits far outweigh the ability to use a single stereo amp. Plus there is a big disparity in driver sensitivities that is easily accounted for with the active crossover.

And I'm not planning to put the drivers in one cabinet. Each driver will have it's own cab. This modular way of doing it will allow me to easily sub in different drivers at different positions but as it stands now, I;m pretty well pleased with the sound. I do have some problems caused by the cardboard boxes but it still sounds very good.

On a side note, I recently realized I was using the old version of WinISD and when I updated to WinISD Pro Alpha, the Vifa P13 was not part of the default list of drivers. I can't seem to find all of the necessary T/S params to add it myself. Does anyone have that info or a WinISD file for that driver?