Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Zilch]

With EconoWave Deluxe (a "first" build) HT mains, Greg mitch is "Official E'Waver" #92.... :thmbsp:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2260584#post2260584

More pics in Greg's build thread over on AVScience Forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18639552#post18639552

 

[buzzardmtn]

Working on my Deluxe's........how do you guys attach a PVC port to the cabinet?

 

[skywave-rider]

Cool! Love the waveguide mounted that way. :thmbsp:

Finished up a pair of mine (center channel still to go) but wanted to share the quick project snapshot with everyone. This was my first build and it was a blast.

The initial listening impressions are very favorable and the detail in these for movies (about 10 minutes of listening so far) is insane!

Thanks to Zilch for helping me out and everyone else who has completed a project to provide me the necessary motivation!

 

[Spasticteapot]

It looks like Parts Express' new "PA-style" woofers are pretty suitable for this application, with good power handling, very high efficiency, and an acceptable 5mm excursion across most of the range:

http://www.parts-express.com/wizard...05-14-2010&utm_campaign=Home+Page+Flash+Panel

The 12" woofer and 13" woofer both have an F3 of roughly 60hz in a ported box, though I suspect that the former is likely a better bet for an econo-waveguide. With 97dB efficiency and the requirement of only a small 1.4 cubic foot ported box, the 12" pro woofer should make for a pretty stellar PA speaker.

 

[4343]

Working on my Deluxe's........how do you guys attach a PVC port to the cabinet?

If you cut the hole accurate enough you can get away with a press fit. Start a little small and sand till it slides in nice and tight. If the hole is a little loose I have used silicone sealer, construction glue, and on one that was huge (6") I put some screws in like 3 spots. Screws went through the PVC from the front, so they were counter-sunk...

 

[Zilch]

Press-fit, typically, with masking tape wrap to make up the difference if the hole, which I typically make with a hole saw, is slightly oversize.

Of late, I've been practicing the technique RayW taught: Forstner bit or hole saw from the inside to the OD, partial depth, then hole saw from the front to the ID. A small pilot hole through marks the location on both sides. Ray uses a router w/straight pattern bit from the front with the duct in place to get a perfect match to the ID in every case.

Another option I'm going to try is a plywood block (scrap from the waveguide opening) bored to the OD and glued to the inside, with the ID hole straight through the baffle. This leaves the full baffle thickness for a routed roundover flare.

Glue? It has to bond PVC (or ABS) to wood. That'd be silicone RTV or cyanoacrylic, maybe, but if the duct is wrapped with masking tape, JBL just used wood glue, permitting the duct to be removed without damaging the baffle, if required.... :yes:

 

[300Z]

I'm considering upgrading my current setup and would like to try these waveguides but I got a couple of questions regarding the smaller waveguides (6 and 8"). Plus I need a waveguide that can be rotated to suit my listening arrangements (nearfield-horizontal and farfield-vertical).

How low can the 6" and 8" waveguides load? I like the 90x90 degrees of the 6" even coverage and that way I probably wouldn't have to rotate it, plus the 6" would fit my current box (barely).
Is the 8" a screw-on or bolt on waveguide (I'm assuming screw-on but I haven't seen a picture of the back or mentioned), it would be nice if it was a bolt-on so I wouldn't have to use an adapter. Any ill effects for using the adapter? Measurements?

Currently I'm running a set of B&C DE/ME-10 combo and 8PS21 (I own the B&C drivers that Zaph tested), all the crossover and EQ is handle by a Behringer DCX2496.
Planning to get the new B&C DE-120 driver to compliment the new waveguides as well.

The reason I want to upgrade is to be able to use a lower x-over point (currently at ~2.4khz) as well as the directivity.

Thanks.
Leo

 

[Zilch]

I'm considering upgrading my current setup and would like to try these waveguides but I got a couple of questions regarding the smaller waveguides (6 and 8"). Plus I need a waveguide that can be rotated to suit my listening arrangements (nearfield-horizontal and farfield-vertical).

Hello Leo, and welcome to AudioKarma and EconoWave. :thmbsp:

You'll be able to get down to 1.6 kHz with either, but they'll do better up closer to 2 kHz. They are both thread-on and rotatable. The 8" is somewhat deeper. See the System Design link from Post #1 for the dimensions. There are response measurements in this thread for both, but none of these with throat adapters that I can recall....

 

[300Z]

Thank you Zilch.
I've been reading this thread for a couple of days now on my spare time but going thru a 700+ pages thread like this will take a little more time...

I was hoping to get close to the 1.8khz area so 1.6khz gives me some room to play which is great.
Considering they both essentially have the same range what would be the advantage of going with the 8" instead of the 6"?
So far I have seen some measurements for the 8" but not the 6"? I searched but no luck...

Thanks again.

 

[Navydoc]

After much circular debate with myself, I think (or at least I hope) I have finalized my build.

I'm attaching the most recent iteration of the design. I am building the bass bin out of 13-ply birch w/ 1.5" x 1.5" poplar as a scaffolding for ridgidity and as a glueing aid (I only have so many clamps). The front baffle will be double thickness so I can offset the Kappalite woofer.

I have decided on a 35 Hz vented cabinet w/ 2 3" ports (w/ 40 Hz high pass filter maximum excursion is less than 5 mm and air vent velocity is less than 5 m/sec [via Bagby Woofer Box Model, ver 4.5]).

This thread is awsome, and a bit overwhelming!

 

[Zilch]

Considering they both essentially have the same range what would be the advantage of going with the 8" instead of the 6"?

In theory, the 8" will do better lower; it also has an asymmetric dispersion pattern, 90° x 50°. It needs more cabinet depth to fit, though.

The 6" has stunningly good polars. It'll sub for 2404H(-1) in just about any of that driver's applications. :yes:

After much circular debate with myself, I think (or at least I hope) I have finalized my build.

Looks good. As more Deluxes are completed, we have growing confidence in the quality of this design. :thmbsp:

This thread is awsome, and a bit overwhelming!

Post #1 is the cookbook, and the rest, the textbook.... :tongue:

 

[skywave-rider]

Here are my measurements taken with 6x6, D220Ti, Le8TH and standard Ewave crossover. 1 meter, not gated:
First image:
On tweeter axis: Green
10 cm down: Blue

Second image:
On tweeter axis: Green
10cm high: Red
15cm high: Purple

Zilch Effect in evidence.
It sounds pretty damned good. I keep saying I will put BMS drivers in for the HF..........

Thank you Zilch.
I've been reading this thread for a couple of days now on my spare time but going thru a 700+ pages thread like this will take a little more time...

I was hoping to get close to the 1.8khz area so 1.6khz gives me some room to play which is great.
Considering they both essentially have the same range what would be the advantage of going with the 8" instead of the 6"?
So far I have seen some measurements for the 8" but not the 6"? I searched but no luck...

Thanks again.

 

[Zilch]

Here are my measurements taken with 6x6, D220Ti, Le8TH and standard Ewave crossover.

Looks mighty sweet to me, Skywave! :thmbsp:

 

[skywave-rider]

Looks mighty sweet to me, Skywave! :thmbsp:

The forward lobe would be broader if I could get the woofer and waveguide closer. As it is, there is 1.5" between the the flanges of the two. But that's the limitation I have with the box because existing ports get in the way. If 300Z builds his own box, I'm sure he'll snug the drivers up a bit closer. Great waveguide.

 

[300Z]

In theory, the 8" will do better lower; it also has an asymmetric dispersion pattern, 90° x 50°. It needs more cabinet depth to fit, though.

The 6" has stunningly good polars. It'll sub for 2404H(-1) in just about any of that driver's applications. :yes:

Great, I guess I'll just order them both and see which one will suit my application better, they are cheap enough.

As for the extra depth on the 8" that would be ok since I'll have to build new boxes if I end up using them anyway so I can just redesign the box dimensions.

 

[300Z]

The forward lobe would be broader if I could get the woofer and waveguide closer. As it is, there is 1.5" between the the flanges of the two. But that's the limitation I have with the box because existing ports get in the way. If 300Z builds his own box, I'm sure he'll snug the drivers up a bit closer. Great waveguide.

The measurements looks great skywave. Thank you.

on my existing box the 6" waveguide would fit right up to woofer flange. I got 7/16" between the ME-10 and the woofer currently.

 

[Navydoc]

Looks good. As more Deluxes are completed, we have growing confidence in the quality of this design. :thmbsp:


Post #1 is the cookbook, and the rest, the textbook.... :tongue:

Thanks Zilch, looking forward to cutting wood. I've had the QSC waveguides since March - they are much bigger than I imagined. Final product should look good.

Probably will veneer w/ oak as the furniture is all Mission style (along w/ the sub). I have never used veneer before, should be a learning experience.

 

[ROSSO]

Working on my Deluxe's........how do you guys attach a PVC port to the cabinet?

I use heavy cardboard shipping tubes, not PVC. I drill a 1/4" pilot hole (or holes, for more than one port) through the baffle, then use a hole saw about the same size as the O.D. of the tube and drill halfway through from the back, then using a hole saw the same I.D. as the I.D. of the port, drill through from the front of the baffle. Trim away the annular excess with a razor knife. Run a fillet of regular wood glue around the inside joint to bond the cardbord tube to MDF or plywood. I buy 3 foot lengths of 1/4" threaded brass (+) and aluminum (-) rod from McMaster-Carr Supply to use for speaker feed-through terminal lugs (and they fit the Zilchlab E-Wave PCB's too) and they come shipped in heavy cardboard tubes 3" I.D.

 

[Zilch]

EconoWave Delite 10e - The Beginning:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1646039#post1646039

 

[skywave-rider]

Man, that's a fit. I see 75 degree pattern.