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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Hello guys :)

I have a silly question about the ewaves where the waveguides are sitting on top of the cabinets like what Greg Mitch did with his and was wondering if having the waveguide sitting on top of the cab like that do you have to change anything in the crossover for bsc?

Im looking at building the ewaves with the deltaliteII 2512's.

SNC00123.jpg


cheers
 
BSC occurs at lower frequencies, and relates mostly to the midbass bin rather than the waveguides. There are mouth/edge diffraction effects with freestanding waveguides, and ideally, the filters might be optimized to compensate, but generally, they'll work either way.... :yes:
 
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Cost mostly . . . to reconfigure the Model 19s I'd have to have the Altec woofers reconed and buy another driver for one of the horns (one horn only has the magnet structure on it) plus build new cabinets. I'm looking for a simpler, and cheaper, project for now. I bought some of the adaptors for the 811Bs since they were quite cheap ($11 including shipping) so no reason not to check them out with the 220ti drivers.

I did order a pair of the Pyle waveguides and I'll probably start by using the cheapy Pyle active crossover I already have. I've got several possibilities for the bottom end - Large Advents, 15" University, Bozaks, JBL 123As and a few others I've probably forgotten about. Also have a few large cabinets to try where I can easily set the waveguide on top.

Power possibilities include various vintage and DIY tube amps. Should be fun!

. . . . Charlie
 
FlaCharlie said:
Cost mostly . . . to reconfigure the Model 19s I'd have to have the Altec woofers reconed and buy another driver for one of the horns (one horn only has the magnet structure on it) plus build new cabinets. I'm looking for a simpler, and cheaper, project for now. I bought some of the adaptors for the 811Bs since they were quite cheap ($11 including shipping) so no reason not to check them out with the 220ti drivers.

I did order a pair of the Pyle waveguides and I'll probably start by using the cheapy Pyle active crossover I already have. I've got several possibilities for the bottom end - Large Advents, 15" University, Bozaks, JBL 123As and a few others I've probably forgotten about. Also have a few large cabinets to try where I can easily set the waveguide on top.

Power possibilities include various vintage and DIY tube amps. Should be fun!

. . . . Charlie
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Driver recones from GPA are about a C note each. Then you need a driver.
The 19s are way valuable restored. You also have the crossovers, which are highly sought after if original. Restore them, then either sell them to fund something more modern, or keep and enjoy.

Large Advent and the JBL 123As would definate potential for e wave.

Russellc
 
Zilch said:
attachment.php

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1646039#post1646039
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Hey, stop that. I'm the one who gets to butcher up Advents around here!

I've been away and it looks like I need to get reading again. Is there a summary of this latest offense against The World's Most Perfect Speaker?

On 5/8 I ordered 4 more PH612 from Pants Excess. They quoted a ship date of 5/21. They never came. I just checked and now they're backordered until 6/25. What gives? It's molded plastic, not communications satellites. I may have to prevail upon Kegger's supply to get my hacked DQ-10s done.
 
I have a pair of woofer horn cabs similar to VOT's but not quite as large. I was thinking of trying them with the ewave. Is there any reason this would be a bad idea? Bass drivers are 2226H's.
 
If they are 5 cu ft and tuned to 40 hz,(maybe even a little lower) they will work fine. IF they are smaller, look at the box size Wayne uses for the 2226H with the 4PI pro version. I think it closer to 3.5 cu ft or so, but its been a long time since I've looked at the box volume. Either way, the 2226H can make a killer E'wave. I've used the 2225H and currently 2235H which I have blabbed on and on about in this thread.

Russellc
 
Zilch said:
Two versions, actually:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1639915#post1639915

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1646039#post1646039

[Smaller Advent is next.... :thmbsp: ]
Click to expand...

Thx. Time for me to catch up. I've now done 3 pairs of LA's with original woofers, PH612's and D220Tis or D210Tis. Several people seem to prefer the slightly droopier top of the obsolete 210. I lucked into 8 more at a reasonable price so I'm set for those for a while.
I tried out the QSC WGs and DE250's for a while but I don't think I have any long-term applications for those.
A torn arm ligament has put my speaker projects on hold for a while because I can't lift stuff.
 
Russellc said:
If they are 5 cu ft and tuned to 40 hz,(maybe even a little lower) they will work fine. IF they are smaller, look at the box size Wayne uses for the 2226H with the 4PI pro version. I think it closer to 3.5 cu ft or so, but its been a long time since I've looked at the box volume. Either way, the 2226H can make a killer E'wave. I've used the 2225H and currently 2235H which I have blabbed on and on about in this thread.

Russellc
Click to expand...

In regard to the 2226H, I have just finished a pair of speakers using the the 2226H and Wayne's 4Pi internal volume of @3 cu-ft tuned to 38-40. I have run them (2226) in the 5 cu-ft 4507 cab in the past but am finding I like the smaller volume and tuning more to my liking. I'm thinking it really plays better to the strengths of the 2226.

RC
 
Bauhausler said:
Thx. Time for me to catch up. I've now done 3 pairs of LA's with original woofers, PH612's and D220Tis or D210Tis. Several people seem to prefer the slightly droopier top of the obsolete 210. I lucked into 8 more at a reasonable price so I'm set for those for a while.
I tried out the QSC WGs and DE250's for a while but I don't think I have any long-term applications for those.
A torn arm ligament has put my speaker projects on hold for a while because I can't lift stuff.
Click to expand...

E-waved Bose cubes might be workable with only one arm.
 
Hey, I saw something interesting again over on DIY in the Group buy thread.
A member named Jzagaja has a thread there called "Waveguides and horns"
Where he is taking custom orders on wave guides and so forth. Shown is a 12 inch round waveguide, looks much like a Geddes clone, price seems reasonable, similar to the non econo 2" JBL wave guide. He lists several sizes that have already been done, willing to take custom. Thought I'd pass this along as all the interest of late here with the round waveguide + modified dome tweeter info. I think these come from Poland, waiting on inquirey concerning shipping and other assorted customer feedback.

russellc
 
doucanoe said:
In regard to the 2226H, I have just finished a pair of speakers using the the 2226H and Wayne's 4Pi internal volume of @3 cu-ft tuned to 38-40. I have run them (2226) in the 5 cu-ft 4507 cab in the past but am finding I like the smaller volume and tuning more to my liking. I'm thinking it really plays better to the strengths of the 2226.

RC
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I have JBL 2225H and 2425H along with the Wayne approved H 290 waveguide from Eminence that I've meant to put together for years. Just couldnt remember the size of the box. I knew the Pi method squeezes drivers into slightly smaller boxes than typical calculation yields.
If Wayne did it that way, I'm sure there is a reason for it, and it probably explains your preference for it!:yes:

Wish I could have attended your fest! Are you planning on Twangfest?

Russellc
 
voltcontrol said:
Are the QSC 122i 'waveguides' or a different conical horn type?
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I don't know what the throat profile is to say. By one view, Geddes oblate spheroids are conical once past the throat, where the action is.

At some point I'll write up some conclusions about 122i and this build experience, but it's going to require more study, first. On a preliminary basis, it's easily seen that the forward lobe is only 1/2 as tall at 2.144 kHz as that of the same-height asymmetric 152i at 1.4 kHz, with essentially the same center-to-center distance. Can 122i play that low? That is the question.... :yes:
 
Zilch said:
I don't know what the throat profile is to say. By one view, Geddes oblate spheroids are conical once past the throat, where the action is.

At some point I'll write up some conclusions about 122i and this build experience, but it's going to require more study, first. On a preliminary basis, it's easily seen that the forward lobe is only 1/2 as tall at 2.144 kHz as that of the same-height asymmetric 152i at 1.4 kHz, with essentially the same center-to-center distance. Can 122i play that low? That is the question.... :yes:
Click to expand...

One point that's often missed in these discussions- the overall dispersion envelope of a round driver is a complex pseudo-conical shape (with roughness), and to match both power response AND on-axis response at the XO, one must use a round source.

Let's assume a 90 degree window. If the waveguide is 90x50, then it needs to be nearly 2x as loud on-axis relative to the woofer, to match total radiated power. How much this matters with a CD style speaker is definitely debatable as you're reducing room interaction and getting longer delayed reflections, and you can certainly balance it without going to that extreme, but there will always be a mismatch.
 
Ah, but try Tomlinson Holman's trick... stack TWO small woofers vertically...

For example... try two 8" woofers and the standard E-wave waveguide... it would, in theory, reduce dispersion to around 1/2 vertically, compared to horizontally, as you near the crossover region with the woofers. Might that "match" the power balance better? Probably, at least a little.

If you like, add two more 8" woofers, and do a 2.5 way, with the first pair (upper) wired to go all the way up to the horn, and the lower pair, say, two octaves lower lowpass frequency... that should "keep the pattern" narrow vertically, down to quite a decently low frequency...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Hang on, now, what do we imagine happens if we use an axisymmetric round waveguide and then damp the floor and ceiling? ;)
 
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