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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Duffinator said:
What's the post #? JBL crossed over that woofer at 1,200 Hz in the 4425.
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Its way back! The standard e wave crossover resulted in a badly placed bump in bass drivers response. Setting it back to the 900 hz (electrically, not necessarily accoustically) to help eliminate the hump, which it did. Do you know what the 1200 Hz was the actual accoustic crossover, (which I assume) or the electrical
crossover point? I imagine this is what explains the difference. I'm sure Jack or Zilch will be along to clarify...:yes: The 900 hz electrical point doesnt mean its at 900 accoustically.

Russellc
 
djnagle said:
OK, I got a set of cabs from Andyman the other day and am looking for a project to build into them. They are Infinities and are tall and flat. Inside dimentions are 8" D x 34" T x 13" W. I am figuring about 2 cu ft interior. So add the woofer and the horn & CD and it might be down to 1.5 cu ft or so. They are vary good looking cabs. So the questions are: 1. are the deep enough for the QSC and CD and 2. What would be the good woofer?
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Hey, Dennis. 1.5 cu ft is good for the Advent woofer, which I like a lot. I have DE10's on QSC waveguides, which I will probably not use. The necessary depth for that combo would be 7" from the front of the baffle to the back of the driver. They're bolt-ons. I saw the pix of those cabs and I think you'll need to replace part of the baffle to get the right holes.

BTW, the Pyle PH612 is back ordered for a month at PE, but I just got the MCM catalog today and it's in there. I checked the website and they're saying immediate shipping. The catalog says $9.73 each and the website says $13. maybe there's a code you have to use for the catalog price or maybe they've gone up and the catalog wasn't updated.
 
I have a pair of those QSC's just sittin' if you want them Dennis. I can't imagine postage would be much of anything.

RC
 
Zilch said:
Two versions, actually:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1639915#post1639915

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1646039#post1646039

[Smaller Advent is next.... :thmbsp: ]
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I looked at both threads but didn't absorb all of the numbers. What's the ballpark sensitivity and impedance of these? I assume we're talking better efficiency than typical vintage-based waveguide conversions. The Advent stock woofer works fine for people with solid state amps that will get decent levels out of an 85-88 db speaker but another 6dbs of efficiency would make the tube guys happier.
 
Bauhausler said:
I looked at both threads but didn't absorb all of the numbers. What's the ballpark sensitivity and impedance of these? I assume we're talking better efficiency than typical vintage-based waveguide conversions. The Advent stock woofer works fine for people with solid state amps that will get decent levels out of an 85-88 db speaker but another 6dbs of efficiency would make the tube guys happier.
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Looks like the trade off for efficiency would be deep bass response. Would you need a sub with that setup?
 
Mark Walters said:
Looks like the trade off for efficiency would be deep bass response. Would you need a sub with that setup?
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Yes, absolutely. These are targeted for use with subs. Iron law, and all that. ;)

Interestingly, eWave Deluxe ALMOST makes it without subs, but is not hugely more efficient than our standard fare here. Delite 10s are.

HT enthusiasts are SPL heads, basically, and subs are part of that package. Pro woofers deliver, but the low frequencies must be augmented. It's "No sweat" for the compression-driver high-frequency capabilities of EconoWave. :)

oldskl said:
That woofer likes the 900hz crossover. Go to page 39 and read what Jackgiff measured on it.
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Good catch, Oldskl! Considering the general experience here, it's a VERY good bet Jack got it right.... :yes:
 
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Mark Walters said:
Looks like the trade off for efficiency would be deep bass response. Would you need a sub with that setup?
Click to expand...

As ever. Size, Sensitivity and Extension. Pick 2 and learn to live with it. With powered subs becoming pretty decent at even the lowest price levels this is less of a problem than it used to be.
I'm developing an integrated tube amp for publication right now*. It will probably be about 6 watts output. I'm not even worrying about the lowest octave, preferring to save 1/3 of the build cost by speccing smaller transformers and just put in a line out for a powered sub.

I need to look over those QSD waveguides some more. I assume the circular axisymmetric referred to here is not a retail part but sold by QSC from repair stock?

* SE triode GU-50 with Edcor iron and driver tube(s) TBD. This is where I've been instead of obsessing over speakers as usual.
 
Bauhausler said:
I need to look over those QSC waveguides some more. I assume the circular axisymmetric referred to here is not a retail part but sold by QSC from repair stock?
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Yes, and as may be seen from the Delite 10e measurements, I am working it at the very limit of its capabilities. QSC crosses it at 2.4 kHz; I'm at 2.144 kHz, and even there, end up with a very short usable vertical lobe. Despite it's 10" dimension, a substantial part of that is mouth roundover. Operatively, it is a tweeter horn/waveguide, smaller than appearances.

That doesn't mean my work with it is definitive -- somebody needs to put a bigger driver on and measure it flush-mounted on a flat baffle; perhaps there is more to accomplish using it than I have done.... :dunno:
 
Zilch said:
Yes, and as may be seen from the Delite 10e measurements, I am working it at the very limit of its capabilities. QSC crosses it at 2.4 kHz; I'm at 2.144 kHz, and even there, end up with a very short usable vertical lobe. Despite it's 10" dimension, a substantial part of that is mouth roundover. Operatively, it is a tweeter horn/waveguide, smaller than appearances.

That doesn't mean my work with it is definitive -- somebody needs to put a bigger driver on and measure it flush-mounted on a flat baffle; perhaps there is more to accomplish using it than I have done.... :dunno:
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Well, I'd say if you've determined that a large part of the diameter is not really a functional part of the waveguide geometry then how it's mounted is unlikely to have much effect on the LF response, right?
OTOH, if the outer rim is more like window dressing then maybe a section of it can be sacrificed to the saw to snug it up closer to the woofer center. Gaining an inch less C-C distance around 2K might be worth doing. Not that I have the arctan tables in my head or anything.
 
Bauhausler said:
Hey, Dennis. 1.5 cu ft is good for the Advent woofer, which I like a lot. I have DE10's on QSC waveguides, which I will probably not use. The necessary depth for that combo would be 7" from the front of the baffle to the back of the driver. They're bolt-ons. I saw the pix of those cabs and I think you'll need to replace part of the baffle to get the right holes.

BTW, the Pyle PH612 is back ordered for a month at PE, but I just got the MCM catalog today and it's in there. I checked the website and they're saying immediate shipping. The catalog says $9.73 each and the website says $13. maybe there's a code you have to use for the catalog price or maybe they've gone up and the catalog wasn't updated.
Click to expand...

Hey Ross, I just PMed RC about his QSCs. Maybe I could borrow your DE10s for a bit when the time comes. Yes, I will need to fit a new motor board and have some very nice teak and holly 2" boards that I can glue up to make like the deck of a Chris-Craft from the 50s.

I just rummaged through my stash and found 2 10" Ohm C2 woofers and 4 10" CV woofers. I should be able to make hey with one of those brands. Although, I think I promised the Ohms to Cosmos so the CVs will have to do. Given the T/S below, would 2 per cab work or just one?

Here are the paramiters of the CVs.

Brand Cerwin-Vega
Model S-10
Description Cast frame, paper cone and foam surround
Nom. diamerer [inch] 10
Vas [Liters] 19.8
Qts 0.6525
Qes 0.714
Qms 7.571
Fs [Hz] 52
Sensitivity [dB] 88
Max Power [W] 150
xmax [mm] 4
Moving mass [g] 72.13
Disp area [m2] 0.033
Re [ohm] 3
Z [ohm]
L [mH] 0.001
Bl [Tm] 9.951

I have that Technics reciever I got from you back from my daughter....she is switching universities and did not want to bring all her junk with her. So that reciever will driver these speakers.
 
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djnagle said:
Hey Ross, I just PMed RC about his QSCs. Maybe I could borrow your DE10s for a bit when the time comes. Yes, I will need to fit a new motor board and have some very nice teak and holly 2" boards that I can glue up to make like the deck of a Chris-Craft from the 50s.

I just rummaged through my stash and found 2 10" Ohm C2 woofers and 4 10" CV woofers. I should be able to make hey with one of those brands. Although, I think I promised the Ohms to Cosmos so the CVs will have to do. Given the T/S below, would 2 per cab work or just one?

Here are the paramiters of the CVs.

Brand Cerwin-Vega
Model S-10
Description Cast frame, paper cone and foam surround
Nom. diamerer [inch] 10
Vas [Liters] 19.8
Qts 0.6525
Qes 0.714
Qms 7.571
Fs [Hz] 52
Sensitivity [dB] 88
Max Power [W] 150
xmax [mm] 4
Moving mass [g] 72.13
Disp area [m2] 0.033
Re [ohm] 3
Z [ohm]
L [mH] 0.001
Bl [Tm] 9.951

I have that Technics reciever I got from you back from my daughter....she is switching universities and did not want to bring all her junk with her. So that reciever will driver these speakers.
Click to expand...

I have both the rectangular QSCs and the DE10s here. You're welcome to borrow them. I think George is ready for his D210Tis now.

Try modeling tha twoofer in one of the box plot programs. Pretty easy to do. I don't have them on this machine. They perished with my old computer.
Beware woofers designed for 3-ways. They often lean hard on the midrange driver for upper end response and don't integrate well with a waveguide in a 2-way.
 
Good point about the woofer. I've never messed with the box programs. Are they free on line? Which one should I download?
 
oldskl said:
That woofer likes the 900hz crossover. Go to page 39 and read what Jackgiff measured on it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info everyone. I went back and read again what Jack posted about these woofers. I wasn't able to find a schematic for his crossover and since I'm totally green at this I don't know how to make the changes to another design to get where I need to be. Any help would be great.
 
What does everyone here think about the Advent Maestros as eWave-ing material? There is a set avail near here for $50.

I did a tour of local thrift stores and fleamarkets today, no joy. Some old Kenwoods and Marantz (both with pretty flimsy cabinets) but nothing worth putting >$100 worth of treble into....
 
bwaslo said:
What does everyone here think about the Advent Maestros as eWave-ing material? There is a set avail near here for $50.

I did a tour of local thrift stores and fleamarkets today, no joy. Some old Kenwoods and Marantz (both with pretty flimsy cabinets) but nothing worth putting >$100 worth of treble into....
Click to expand...

That's a 3-way. The woofer might not have enough top end response to work in a 2-way system. 2-ways are usually a better bet for conversion. It shouldn't be difficult to find a pair of the 2-way large Advents for the same price, and they're proven Ewave material.
 
bwaslo said:
What does everyone here think about the Advent Maestros as eWave-ing material? There is a set avail near here for $50.

I did a tour of local thrift stores and fleamarkets today, no joy. Some old Kenwoods and Marantz (both with pretty flimsy cabinets) but nothing worth putting >$100 worth of treble into....
Click to expand...

Despite being a 3-way, that woofer works fine up to around 2K.

See post 8135 for a pic of it in a 2-way. I have used that one with good results.:yes:
 
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