Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
BlueFlyingV
Tin Knocker
I have a pair of Tangent 500's that I bought from the Navy Exchange in Rota Spain in the early 90's. I've been debating on whether or not to give them the ewave treatment.
As mentioned, the cab has little to no bracing or dampening material, but thats easy enough to fix.
I've got a pair of 2214H's that im itching to use, but I'm not sure how they would work out with the passive radiator in the 500's. I guess finding out is half the fun.
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I've heard those 5.5's and they are pretty impressive as they are. I'm not sure E-wave'n them is going to be much of an improvement without they ability to measure the existing 10's. What Zilch was getting at is that the bottom woofer...if receiving the same signal as the top in either a parellel or series config will create some significant comb filtering and smear up the vertical response simply due to the distance from the lower woofer to the horn on the baffle. the suggestion would be to rework the XO in a .5 configuration where there's an inductor between the two woofers causing the lower woofer to rolloff the low pass lower in the FR, releiving the system of the above issues and combating the need for baffle step. The cabinet is pressboard so really no value in repurposing it for a full blown re-design with more expensive drivers.
What's the cabinet dimensions? 2214 might work...
Also, looking at the sum of the space taken by the mid and tweeter horn... might be just the area needed for one of the Ewave flares. If not the PH612 type, then maybe the QSC152...
Regards,
Gordon.
BlueFlyingV
Tin Knocker
Cab dimensions are H 40.5 W 15.5 D 14.6 and the MDF is .75ish so that gives me a volume of about 4 cu.ft.
I have both the PH612 and QSC152. The 612 will fit without much effort, but the QSC would require some major surgery.
The 2214's were refoamed by you BTW.
I have both the PH612 and QSC152. The 612 will fit without much effort, but the QSC would require some major surgery.
The 2214's were refoamed by you BTW.
Russellc
Addicted Member
Not much difference on paper, but the 220ti is solidly outperformed by the B&C DE 250.
At least in my opinion. That said the 220ti is very nice, and extremely inexpensive as well.
Russellc
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Russellc
Addicted Member
4343
Super Member
That's what I think too. For the price, the 220Ti is great! (I have around 10 of them.):thmbsp:The DE 250 is smoother up high, due to what sounds like a breakup mode in the 220Ti. Probably the DE250 also breaks up, but the Ti diaphragm of the 220Ti doesn't damp it as well as the phenolic or polamide, or something along those lines is my guess. Either way
sounds good.
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On the Klipsch KG 5.5:
Based on whats been said so far, would you suspect the best bang for the buck would be just to add an inductor to the lower speaker to roll off above about 200 Hz, and possibly upgrade the diaphragm from phenolic to titanium from Mr. Crites? Would I have to make alterations to the rest of the crossover if I added that inductor? Actually thats not going to be all that cheap; a 6 mH inductor is about 45 bucks. Do you really think I'll notice a significant improvement by doing the "0.5 mod"?
Based on whats been said so far, would you suspect the best bang for the buck would be just to add an inductor to the lower speaker to roll off above about 200 Hz, and possibly upgrade the diaphragm from phenolic to titanium from Mr. Crites? Would I have to make alterations to the rest of the crossover if I added that inductor? Actually thats not going to be all that cheap; a 6 mH inductor is about 45 bucks. Do you really think I'll notice a significant improvement by doing the "0.5 mod"?
Econowave for a Bass Guitar Cabinet?
Hi,
I'm new to this forum so i hope I don't step on any toes by jumping right in and asking a few questions.
I'm trying to figure out how to work the Econowave into a bass guitar cabinet. I plan to use 2 Eminence BassLite S2012 speakers in parallel for a nominal impedance of 4 ohms. A pair of these speakers handle 300 watts RMS or 600 watts Music Program. I'm thinking of just letting them run without a Low pass because all of that nasty break up at the high end sounds really good with a bass guitar. Also I'd like to use the Econowave without the CD compensation, because I don't need the ruler flat high end.....it actually sounds better if the highs slope down like the uncompensated High pass filter.
I'm concerned with power handling. I will be using a 700 watt Bass guitar amp and I don't want to blow up the cross over, particular the L-Pad. The standard 3.5KHz cross over frequency looks like it will work with these drivers. So my questions are:
1. What does the uncompensated high pass crossover circuit look like?
2. What Power rating do I need for the components and L-Pad?
3. Did I make any dumb assumptions?
Thanks for any help and feel free to tell me to do the work my self, but I was hoping some of you guys might know this off the top of your head.
Hi,
I'm new to this forum so i hope I don't step on any toes by jumping right in and asking a few questions.
I'm trying to figure out how to work the Econowave into a bass guitar cabinet. I plan to use 2 Eminence BassLite S2012 speakers in parallel for a nominal impedance of 4 ohms. A pair of these speakers handle 300 watts RMS or 600 watts Music Program. I'm thinking of just letting them run without a Low pass because all of that nasty break up at the high end sounds really good with a bass guitar. Also I'd like to use the Econowave without the CD compensation, because I don't need the ruler flat high end.....it actually sounds better if the highs slope down like the uncompensated High pass filter.
I'm concerned with power handling. I will be using a 700 watt Bass guitar amp and I don't want to blow up the cross over, particular the L-Pad. The standard 3.5KHz cross over frequency looks like it will work with these drivers. So my questions are:
1. What does the uncompensated high pass crossover circuit look like?
2. What Power rating do I need for the components and L-Pad?
3. Did I make any dumb assumptions?
Thanks for any help and feel free to tell me to do the work my self, but I was hoping some of you guys might know this off the top of your head.
See the "Deluxe" crossover schematic here:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3448405#post3448405
There's no HF comp in that one, just a highpass filter, and a fixed L-pad (R1/ R2) followed by an adjustable one. Use the standard eWave core filter (4.7uF, 0.6mH) with the Selenium driver and standard Econo Waveguide. Observe the power dissipation precautions stated in the "Instructions" link provided there, and calculate R1/R2 to provide the attenuation requisite for bringing the HF SPL into the range of the adjustable L-pad. Use the 100W version for that:
http://www.bcae1.com/lpad.htm
840326/11990=70.0856
No, that will require a crossover redesign, as well....
Russellc
Addicted Member
That's what I think too. For the price, the 220Ti is great! (I have around 10 of them.):thmbsp:The DE 250 is smoother up high, due to what sounds like a breakup mode in the 220Ti. Probably the DE250 also breaks up, but the Ti diaphragm of the 220Ti doesn't damp it as well as the phenolic or polamide, or something along those lines is my guess. Either way
Yes, that breakup mode is in a very fortituous place, serving to help extend the high frequencies of the 220Ti. Ditto the eminence 2002 compression driver that Wayne uses as his "less expensive" choice to the DE 250.
Not only does the 220ti have this "helping breakup mode", but works perfectly with econowave in terms of crossover point. The 220ti is a little more limited compared to the DE 250 in how low it can run. The E'wave with 220ti uses a crossover around 3000 electrically, which is above its limit, yet accoustically
works out closer to 1500-1600 Hz. Perfect for this budget driver!
Russellc
Just posted EconoWave Altec 414-8B in "Flex Your Mettle" on PE's Tech Talk forum:
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1683901#post1683901
[BMS 4552nd on QSC 152i -- TASTY...!
]
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1683901#post1683901
[BMS 4552nd on QSC 152i -- TASTY...!
]
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What would be a good or best wave guide to use with an 8" mid-woofer. I have a nice pair of Altec 887a drivers that I'd like to try with the Selenium 220Ti-8 CD.
What about the Dayton H07E 6" x 6" Elliptical or Dayton H6512 6-1/2" x 12"?
What do you recommend? Thanks!
What about the Dayton H07E 6" x 6" Elliptical or Dayton H6512 6-1/2" x 12"?
What do you recommend? Thanks!
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H6512 is the Dayton version of the standard EconoWaveguide.
I used H07E in the KLH-17 project documented by myself and others elsewhere in this forum, and more recently, the JBL 8" square waveguide in AR4x here:
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1654314#post1654314
All of those options are workable, but the standard 12" x 6.5" is most common, if you have room for it....
Russellc
Addicted Member
Just posted EconoWave Altec 414-8B in "Flex Your Mettle" on PE's Tech Talk forum:
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1683901#post1683901
[BMS 4552nd on QSC 152i -- TASTY...!
Nice! Now roll out your 4507 box, stick in 2235H and do that one!
(with B&C DE 250 and QSC)Pretty please!:tresbon:
I have aquired a new lap top, my own PCD mettle may not be too far away.
Wife is in hospital, so will be a little while until I can get the M-audio mobil pre, or some other phantom power and mic pre amp.
Russellc
Thanks Zilch!
One more question (for now). If I let the woofer run without a cross-over will it mess up the phase between the drivers in the crossover region? I know for the typical 2nd order cross-over, the tweeter and woofer are wired out of phase. Is this still true if I don't use a low pass on the woofer?
