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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Could someone guide me for taking the L-pad out of the crossover to be replaced by fixed resistors?

I have the L-pads "dialed in".

Should I take them out of circuit and measure the leg resistances, then replace with fixed resistors? I'm thinking carbon film, your advice is welcome.

I'm using the crossover below. I also plan to install Charge Coupling.

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I used wayne parhams chart, the rated efficiency of the woofer and measuring mic. (as well as my ears)
 
Could someone guide me for taking the L-pad out of the crossover to be replaced by fixed resistors?

I have the L-pads "dialed in".

Should I take them out of circuit and measure the leg resistances, then replace with fixed resistors? I'm thinking carbon film, your advice is welcome.

I'm using the crossover below. I also plan to install Charge Coupling.

attachment.php

That's the easy route, yes. Measure between 1 & 2, find resistor that value. Measure between 2 & 3, find resistor that value. That will replicate what you have. A simple voltage divider.

It's actually more complicated once you realize that R2 is in parallel with your two new resistors, so you could put R2 across the L-pad pins 1 & 3, measure pin 1 & 2, 2 & 3 and find resistors that match those values, then leave R2 out of the circuit.

In effect just adding resistors across R2 puts a voltage divider across the lower half of the original voltage divider formed by R1 & R2. Leaving R2 out, same thing.

The more complicated way is to adjust the voltage divider formed by R1 and R2 with the correct values that will give you the result you already have. As alluded to in the previous post, that will need some measurements, or just lots of resistors to experiment with. Wayne's chart lists the different values.

As for carbon film, as long as the wattage is high enough to not burn out, any resistor should work. I prefer the Dayton non-inductive types as per the Std EW parts list. There is an argument to be made that the L-pads have inductance, so removing them may have some effect. It's probably going to be for the better...
 
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hi guys, been doing A LOT of econowave reading.
I have parts for a mini on order (Beta 8A, 220ti, HM17)


What I am asking is: I have another pair of speakers I built last year, and uses the Deltalite 2512 ii, the Selenium 220ti, and the Eminence SST-1 horns.

Which crossover would you suggest?

They don't sound bad, but I know whatever crossover that is in there ain't optimum.

Also, for my mini project can I use the DE10 instead of the 220ti without penalty?
 
(Beta 8A, 220ti, HM17) ?

Looks an eWave mini variant...for those that don't follow the Parts Express thread... http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1693948#post1693948

I have no clue how the SST-1 compares the standard eWave waveguide but I would try the LE14 variant of the "standard" crossover http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151339&stc=1&d=1243017683 Note - the LE14 is "reverse" polarity. I've used this version with the 2510 and 3015 woofers so I suspect the 2512 would be in the same ballpark. Got any measurement gear?

The DE10 just won't go as low as the 220Ti or DE250.
 
Right, the DE10 does not go as low. You need to adjust the crossover to cross higher and make sure you have a woof that can go up to 2k comfortably.
 
Right, the DE10 does not go as low. You need to adjust the crossover to cross higher and make sure you have a woof that can go up to 2k comfortably.

I'm planning on trying this combo... maybe using the Pyle PH715 bolt-on horns (the Nexo clones) and an Allison or Becker 8" woofer (I have a pair of each). I'm thinking of just taking the standard E-wave crossover, and reducing the lowpass and highpass crossover values (one coil and one cap per section) to about 75% of the original values (should put it up to about 2KHz, effective crossover point) as a starting point...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
I also plan to install Charge Coupling.

You'll find the charge coupling quite effective. At least I did with the Selenium drivers anyway. I chronicled that effort way back, I think the index shows the page the crossover was on. I received a rash of crap from many non-believes, (who of course never tried it) oh well, ignorance is bliss! Trust me, it cleans the Selenium 220 ti A LOT.

I'm not arguing this again to all out there, if they dont think it can possibly work, great they are entitled to their very wrong opinion.:D

Enjoy that CC network, and report results, I'd be very interested in your opinion.

Russellc
 
I'm planning on trying this combo... maybe using the Pyle PH715 bolt-on horns (the Nexo clones) and an Allison or Becker 8" woofer (I have a pair of each). I'm thinking of just taking the standard E-wave crossover, and reducing the lowpass and highpass crossover values (one coil and one cap per section) to about 75% of the original values (should put it up to about 2KHz, effective crossover point) as a starting point...

Regards,
Gordon.

When we built Dell's eWaves, we used the DE10 and a woofer that is more of a sub so the lack of highs on the woof and the lack of lows on the DE10 made for an obvious hole in the lower mid region.

The DE10 is a sweet sounding driver though. No complaints there.
 
I'm planning on trying this combo... maybe using the Pyle PH715 bolt-on horns (the Nexo clones)
FYI, Nexo uses a rebadged B&C DE45 on that waveguide in the PS10 and a couple others. It's now out of production but it's a very good driver IMO...unusually flat.
 
Can someone explain "charge coupling"

Generically, charge coupling is a method of using a DC voltage source to bias or “charge” the critical caps of a speaker xover such that the voltage or charge on the dielectric never reverses. (I think “dielectric biasing” is a better name for the method but…) While the concept is pretty simple and not too difficult to implement in most designs, the benefits are not universally appreciated. A quick search will provide lots of info. I think even Mr. “No Wank “ Zilch played with the idea so there could be objective merit to it. I haven’t taken the plunge personally because I’m not sure the benefits are clear-cut enough and in most cases it requires that you double the number of xover caps and increase the values of those doubled caps 2X plus the need for a biasing battery and isolation resistors. IOW, added complexity and cost.
 
Generically, charge coupling is a method of using a DC voltage source to bias or “charge” the critical caps of a speaker xover such that the voltage or charge on the dielectric never reverses. (I think “dielectric biasing” is a better name for the method but…) While the concept is pretty simple and not too difficult to implement in most designs, the benefits are not universally appreciated. A quick search will provide lots of info. I think even Mr. “No Wank “ Zilch played with the idea so there could be objective merit to it. I haven’t taken the plunge personally because I’m not sure the benefits are clear-cut enough and in most cases it requires that you double the number of xover caps and increase the values of those doubled caps 2X plus the need for a biasing battery and isolation resistors. IOW, added complexity and cost.

Very well put. It can be a frightfully expensive project with complicated (read many caps) crossovers. The interesting thing with Econowave is the fact that the crossovers are relatively low parts count, so not very expensive to try.

The resistors, pots, and coils stay the same. Caps are doubled in value, and then 2 of that value are used, with the + of the 9 volt battery connected at the junction between them, - is connected to ground. Separate batteries for each section if bi wired speaker terminals on speakers. Battery life is basically what ever the shelf life of the battery is.

JBL uses this method in many of its very highest end speakers. I'm glad to explain what little I know and what my results have been with it, it's just that last time many jumped in to argue the merits, and I dont care to do that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. I'm bringing it up if anyone's interested.

The results I got, with the original crossover and the Selenium 220 ti and JBL waveguide, were pleasant, yet not of the "jaw dropping" category. What I noticed most was an improvement in what I always refered to as a "fizziness" riding on the top end, and occasionally a little lower. The CC seemed to remove this characteristic to great degree, making the 220ti smoother and more focused at the same time. I found it extremely worthwhile myself, and in this case wasnt terrifically expensive. That said,
I still went with the DE 250 over the Selenium and have no regrets, and I havent implemented CC on it. It doesnt seem to suffer from the "fizziness" as much, but I would like to try it.

In sum, noticeable and pleasant improvement (IMO), not a drop dead WOW! difference, but noticeable and pleasant. Not as big a difference b/w DE 250 and the Selenium 220 ti, but along those lines.

Hope this helps, I believe the index has a link to Zilch's crossover, its a good study, as it mixes and matches caps to get the correct values, a lesson in it self.

Here's the link:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=101428&d=1217293889

Russellc
 
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Re: "charge coupling"

Include "Greg Timbers" of JBL in your search. He is credited with the development of the technique.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...rge-Coupling-on-the-Cheap&p=126878#post126878

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For my subject crossover, C1 becomes 2) 13.6 uF caps with a ~1.5 meg ohm resistor tied to their junction. From that resistor a 9V battery is tied to ground with the negative terminal towards ground.
C2 becomes 2) 30 uF caps that can use the same resistor/battery connection to ground or another discrete resistor/battery set if bi-amping is used.

Keep Zilch in your prayers.
 
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