Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[donprice]

Why do my drivers act so different? I'm really starting to think it's the AVR.. Am I missing something here?

+1 on the second amp for testing. The simpler, the better.

If you haven't already done it, break out the AVR owners manual and figure out how to defeat all tone settings. On my Yamaha I hit the "pure direct" button. You may have something similar. Or go a little deeper, reset everything, and then try a couple measurements (on-axis, 1 speaker only, yada yada yada).

Good luck! You system looks way too nice to not sound superb.

 

[DigitalChris]

Thanks Don, that means a lot. I do have a "pure direct" option on my AVR but never thought of trying that, looks like it defeats all EQ like on your Yamaha, thanks for pointing that out

 

[MFaughn]

Advise a newb

I've had e-waves on my radar for a couple of years now. After at least one false start they are starting to creep up to the top of my "I need it" list. I've googled and tried to cherry pick this thread and the Flex yr PCD Mettle one over on TechTalk but there is just too much to sift through. I have a few questions that I haven't really figured out the answers to.

I recently acquired some Pioneer CS-63's. The cabinets are really solid (thick plywood) and look to me like good candidates for loading up with some drivers. They are fairly big boxes, approaching 4cf if I"m not mistaken.

I'm having trouble figuring out which woofers would suit me best. If possible I'd like something that will do the trick without a sub. No real interest in HT or organ music. I've played around with WinISD a little bit and plugged in the params or several of the usual suspects. My problem is that I am not 100% sure what I'm looking for in terms of a curve. I understand flat. Is it preferable to have a gentle slow roll-off that starts earlier and takes longer or to stay flat farther to the left and then have that steeper roll-off? What about a bump right before you roll off? What is reasonable F3 for music sans sub?

So...

12" or 15"?

Any driver suggestions?

Actually, what might be helpful is if somebody could say, "If you use driver X it will sound like this and if you use driver Y it will sound like this." Then I could plug in the params, see the curves, play with the params, and perhaps start to get a better sense of how everything interacts...maybe?

Thanks for any help.

And of course...if these questions have already been answered somewhere or there is a straightforward, succinct explanation of these matter lurking in the ether that ought to shed light then please point me in that direction.

Thanks.

edit: playing more. Selenium 15PW3 in sealed box or Celestion TF1530 ported? Box is probably ~110 liters. Any reason why nobody has tried these drivers?

 

[drumdude]

stock drivers

is there any reason for not wanting to use the stock woofers? I have built a few ewave designs starting with speakers that had cheap tweeters but decent cabinets and woofers. The cabinet should already be sized for this woofer unless it is poor design. some more fill will usually help. The beauty of E-wave is it's modular design to adapt the top end to many woofer combinations.

As far as lows. I would E-wave what you have, and if you want better lows later. throw 1-3 small powered subs around the room. they are easy to hide and will really help the bottom end better than a single bass source.

 

[MFaughn]

is there any reason for not wanting to use the stock woofers?

One of them is a replacement. The original is a great big alnico magnet thing. Kinda cool actually. I guess I could buy another original off fleabay.

I also have two nice alnico CTS 15" woofers from an old Magnavox console. They have worked nicely in OB but I'm not so sure about putting them in a box. They have some added mass as well (only time I've ever seen that on old console woofer) and I'm not sure how far up they can reach. They are also a bit on the delicate side.

I suppose it would hurt to start with the horns and just try out whatever I come across.

 

[Rapidroy]

How to tone down HF w/ JBL LE14A?

Hi all
On my L220 ewave's I have to turn the Lpad almost all the way down to get a good balance with LE14a's. I know I read somewhere that a resistor change in the xover would help this and make the Lpad more centered. anyone remember?

 

[4343]

Hi all
On my L220 ewave's I have to turn the Lpad almost all the way down to get a good balance with LE14a's. I know I read somewhere that a resistor change in the xover would help this and make the Lpad more centered. anyone remember?

Page 1 of this thread...

First link, then look for "Variants".

You'll end up here:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151339&stc=1&d=1243017683

(This LE-14 variant has the >95dB high pass, it sounds like you need the <95dB high pass in the standard XO.)

If that's what you built, you just need to swap two resistors and one cap to get back to the standard XO:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151281&d=1242968714

You only need one resistor though, as one can be reused in the other position.

 

[Rapidroy]

I think I used the standered JBL LE14A xover by Jackgiff but will check when I get off work. It looks like C3 and R1,R2 will need to be changed and L2 and c2

 

[4343]

I think I used the standard JBL LE14A xover by Jackgiff but will check when I get off work. It looks like C3 and R1,R2 will need to be changed and L2 and c2

No need to change L2 or C2 (if they are already 2.0mH and 15mFD), those are for the LE14A Low Pass side of the crossover. You only need to change out some High Pass components (C3 and R1,R2) to adjust the sensitivity of the High Pass side feeding the waveguide.

 

[Rapidroy]

I swapped r1,r2,c3 (30,16, .47)and its much better, about 1/2 at the lpad, but then it's midnight so I didnt get to test them to much.

 

[djnagle]

Gunna do some eWave testing. I have a pair of Pioneer B20 full range (that's a joke) drivers in a TL cab that was designed for them. I got them for 11 bucks at the SA and have been using them in my shop. John G called the other day and asked if I had eWave parts so we could do some eWave testing using his MiniDSP. I didn't have the horns or drivers, but Newman does and has agreed to lend them to the project for a bit. Should be interesting to see if we can do any better than the stock eWave crossovers. We keep the data coming when we get started.

 

[DCinDC]

I think that's overkill and a bit of a waste of time for B20s. I bought a pair based on the hype and they don't have lows or highs. And I don't think the mids they do have are particularly endearing.

 

[djnagle]

This is just a test. I totally agree with your assessment of the B20 execept for the midrange. To my ear, that sound pretty good. They make great shop speakers. I have bass EQ on my Protron reciever so the bass gets fairly deep and I'd rather not have high highs in the shop. That blows the whole "background music" thing.

 

[DCinDC]

I was spoiled by a pair of vintage 15" Jensens....

For a shop they are good. Nice presence peak to cut thru other noise, and they are hardy, not easily damaged.

 

[MFaughn]

I recently acquired some Pioneer CS-63's. The cabinets are really solid (thick plywood) and look to me like good candidates for loading up with some drivers. They are fairly big boxes, approaching 4cf if I"m not mistaken.

I was mistaken. We're closer to 2.8 cu ft / 80 liters internal volume before loading them up with drivers.

Woofer suggestions welcome....please....pretty, please. I'm doing the research but it takes a while and help is helpful, ya know.

 

[DigitalChris]

Ok, so I got my x/o's back from Skywave and everything turned out ok. Tonight, I turned on "Direct" mode and ran some sweeps and to my surprise, the upper end of the graphs look the same as before :saywhat:

For haha's, I noticed my LFE was much lower as well and turned up the amp a little, and no change AT ALL, odd...

Here are the graphs I just took, red is regular (no "direct" mode) and the green is direct mode...

Whatcha think?

 

[Kegger]

I'm at a loss, without being there I haven't a clue as to what to suggest.

Sorry about that, but every time I think I See Something it doesn't come
out in the testing, I'd really have to be there to figure what is happening.

 

[4343]

Source.
Amp.
Speaker.
Mic.
Pre.
Measurement system.

Not much else it could be...

Time to substitute one bit at a time and see where the curve is coming from.

IIRC, the speakers checked out OK?

 

[bwaslo]

What is the source? I've seen something like that when a guy was trying to test using a "high end" dac as his source - something that "fixed" the ringing on transient edges. Of course, it did that by rolling off the highs in effect.

 

[djnagle]

Have you check the drivers?? Might want to disconnect them from the crossover and hook them up full range to your amp. Take care not to turn it up too loud. Then run your sweep. If you get the same high end, it might want to test them, but at the very least you can eliminate your xover.