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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Without getting into a huge discussion of whether or not caps/resistors/etc. make a huge difference.......

I'm getting my supplies ready for a Barziwaves build, accounting for the cap/resistor changes based on Jack Giff's schematic. As a starter, using D220 drivers and LE14A (8 Ohm) woofers, I went to this page:

http://home.comcast.net/~dnewma04/EconowaveBoM.htm

At the very least I can up to 1% Daytons for a nicer match and I may order double the resistors to be able to match more closely. Are there, without going crazy, better inductors to consider? Right now the parts list is hovering around $95. I could afford a bit more if possible (I'd be comfortable with $50 more). Does anyone have experience with this crossover and could make recommendations where money might be best spent and/or what some decent alternatives to the projected list is? I don't want to be a cheapskate but I'd also like to keep the cost down as much as possible.
 
If you want to spend more money, buy better drivers.

There is a Selenium around 90 each vs 50 each that is a step up. The there are the BEC or whatever that brand is, at about 125 each. The part numbers and impressions can be found in this thread.

Getting it done is the final goal though. Don't over-think and under-do it. Mine took months to get together, and if I had known how good they would sound, I woulda hurried! :)
 
DCinDC said:
If you want to spend more money, buy better drivers.

There is a Selenium around 90 each vs 50 each that is a step up. The there are the BEC or whatever that brand is, at about 125 each. The part numbers and impressions can be found in this thread.

Getting it done is the final goal though. Don't over-think and under-do it. Mine took months to get together, and if I had known how good they would sound, I woulda hurried! :)
Click to expand...

Will changing the compression driver (say to the Selenium D2500) require a change in components in the crossover? I've skimmed through this thread but there are near 1000 posts!
 
I agree that better drivers in a good place to spend money, but I would also offer that if you have two amps, you might consider the MiniDSP active crossover. It is just about the same money as all the passive components and you can change it if you upgrade drivers or need to tweak it for your room and your personal taste.
 
A good start can be found at page 806 post 12076

remember you can work Google search on this thread.

"Selenium D2500 site:audiokarma.org"
or
"B&C site:audiokarma.org"
 
djnagle said:
I agree that better drivers in a good place to spend money, but I would also offer that if you have two amps, you might consider the MiniDSP active crossover. It is just about the same money as all the passive components and you can change it if you upgrade drivers or need to tweak it for your room and your personal taste.
Click to expand...

I'm not with the big dogs. I only have one amp. :tears:

Is there a law of diminishing returns on drivers? The next step up is ~$70 more, ~$140 after that, and so on and on. It reminds me of the movies, "you can have the next size up for only $0.60 more!" Do I just suck it up, save a bit then go for the gusto spending $300 on compression drivers or are the base $90 drivers a pretty good starting point? Would one necessarily notice a move up to the next driver or do you really have to spend $$$ to get better results?
 
The 350 or 360 CD drivers at diysoundgroup.com seem very close in sound to the DE250 CD drivers of econowave deluxe. At a lot lower cost.
 
dodog said:
I'm not with the big dogs. I only have one amp. :tears:

Is there a law of diminishing returns on drivers? The next step up is ~$70 more, ~$140 after that, and so on and on. It reminds me of the movies, "you can have the next size up for only $0.60 more!" Do I just suck it up, save a bit then go for the gusto spending $300 on compression drivers or are the base $90 drivers a pretty good starting point? Would one necessarily notice a move up to the next driver or do you really have to spend $$$ to get better results?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about diminishing returns, but I like to use the best driver available. For me, that means scorering the bay, CL, BT and the like.

I understand about the second amp. With an active crossover, you need straight power amps and a seperate preamp. You can't use integrateds.
 
I think that once you pass the Selenium, the next logical step (for me) would be stepping up to the BMS/B&C/18Sound/Radian class of drivers.
 
bwaslo said:
The 350 or 360 CD drivers at diysoundgroup.com seem very close in sound to the DE250 CD drivers of econowave deluxe. At a lot lower cost.
Click to expand...

Haven't heard much about them, but what I have heard has been decent. If I knew more about them, I might recommend them as that next step.
 
DCinDC said:
Why is this the first I've heard of this?
Click to expand...

They hit the streets in the last month or two along with the SEOS waveguides. Very few builds completed with them...except for the ones by a member here that won't link to his own work http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

I've got several of them but it may take me forever to actually get around to building with them. One thing I really want to try is testing them with the Z19 (or similar) crossover. The DE250/QSC waveguide combo has a large peak around 2kHz that sems to be absent in the denovo 360/SEOS combo.
 
bwaslo said:
The 350 or 360 CD drivers at diysoundgroup.com seem very close in sound to the DE250 CD drivers of econowave deluxe. At a lot lower cost.
Click to expand...

The 360's graph looks near identical to the DE250. Not only that, it looks exactly the same but just doesn't have the B&C sticker on the back:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-605

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/drivers/tweeters/dna-360.html

(no affiliation)

Other things, like binding posts, look exactly the same as other models at PartsExpress but are cheaper as well. Can anyone verify that these are possibly just rebadged models, sold cheaper or are they cheap knockoffs? I have nothing against saving money and I'm not accusing anyone at diysoundgroup of selling fakes, I'm just curious how the products can be so much cheaper. Anyone here have experience with their products?
 
Hey Chris,
Well the thing to try now would be to hook up the little chip amp I sent you. Make sure you engage the direct button on the front, bypassing the tone controls. The PS may induct some hum, if so reorient the PS.

Then compare it you your amp.

Is that measurement taken with the CAL file I sent you?

Sorry I lost traction on this but been busy lately. Feel free to give me a buzz also.

DigitalChris said:
Ok, so I got my x/o's back from Skywave and everything turned out ok. Tonight, I turned on "Direct" mode and ran some sweeps and to my surprise, the upper end of the graphs look the same as before :saywhat:

For haha's, I noticed my LFE was much lower as well and turned up the amp a little, and no change AT ALL, odd...

Here are the graphs I just took, red is regular (no "direct" mode) and the green is direct mode...

regular.jpg


pure.jpg


regvspureovrly.jpg


Whatcha think?
Click to expand...
 
They had them re-popped in China.

dodog said:
The 360's graph looks near identical to the DE250. Not only that, it looks exactly the same but just doesn't have the B&C sticker on the back:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-605

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/drivers/tweeters/dna-360.html

(no affiliation)

Other things, like binding posts, look exactly the same as other models at PartsExpress but are cheaper as well. Can anyone verify that these are possibly just rebadged models, sold cheaper or are they cheap knockoffs? I have nothing against saving money and I'm not accusing anyone at diysoundgroup of selling fakes, I'm just curious how the products can be so much cheaper. Anyone here have experience with their products?
Click to expand...
 
Ok, found something interesting. I ran a sweep with my AVR in direct mode and then ran the same sweep at roughly the same level plus or minus .2db (according to the "check levels" test) with the Lepai in direct mode, a small 2 channel amp that Skywave sent me, and the results are interesting...

Red is the Lepai and blue is my Marantz

marantzvslepai.jpg
 
Yes, interesting, Chris. Please confirm whether or not you are using the Cross Spectrum CAL file I sent you......

And I assume you are going direct from your computer interface output into the Lepai...right? You don't want to go through the AVR at all for the Lepai test.
 
Sorry sky, yes, I am using the cross spectrum file you sent me. And for the Lepai, I'm not going through the AVR, just from my sound card to the Lepai amp.
 
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