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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

safebet said:
I understand not wanting to start from scratch because it's helpful to work from proven designs. Maybe you can tell us which of the prior projects (where not all parts are readily available) interested you and why. High efficiency usually comes with a sacrifice on bass if not built with an appropriately large enclosure.

A build I have been happy with is the Econowave HO.

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It has clarity and efficiency in spades but no deep bass. All components are still available as new with the exception of the QSC152 waveguide. If that's a path you want to pursue you could begin inquiries and may find someone with spares that they're willing to part with.

There's a lot of folks here ready to help guide you.
Click to expand...
@RogerA , another one to look at, with all parts currently available is the SR Compact. I like that PA310 woofer.

And as @safebet comments, the higher efficiency pro woofers benefit from some subwoofer help, generally. @RogerA your comment about wanting "full bass" makes me immediately think of the Standard Econowave. It isn't so high efficiency as you are asking but I think the bass is fun and engaging with that set up. I have not listened to the Standard Econowave on a tube amp but I should try that. I loaned my Standards to someone for a demo. I expect to have them back soon and I'll give them a listen on a tube amp (current working tube amp is a Glow Audio Amp Two push-pull EL84). If you are close to Michigan, you are welcome to give mine a listen.

Smiley
 
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RogerA said:
I am interested in building a pair of high efficiency speakers to go with my 6LU8 tube amp. All of the components initially specified are no longer available. I have gone through several pages of this thread, and have yet to find an example using components that are currently available.

If someone knows where to point me to get current info, I would be grateful.

I would like to build a two way, with a horn tweeter, I built one 50 years ago, and liked the way it sounded. My goal is to build something that has relatively high sensitivity, say over 95 dB. I currently run a couple of pairs that have 89 dB sensitivity, and though they sound great, I think I could make a nice pair that because of their sensitivity could be a bit more dynamic, and have fuller bass.

I have good woodworking skills, and some electronics skills, however, I do not have much of any test equipment, so I do not want to start from scratch.

R
Click to expand...
Hi Roger,
Check out the VBS systems over at MTG Design which seems very much like econowave to me. Good luck!

www.mtg-designs.com

MTG Designs - DIY Speaker Plans

Links go to the original build threads for each of these designs. All plans linked here are free for personal use.
www.mtg-designs.com www.mtg-designs.com
 
RogerA said:
I am interested in building a pair of high efficiency speakers to go with my 6LU8 tube amp. All of the components initially specified are no longer available. I have gone through several pages of this thread, and have yet to find an example using components that are currently available.

If someone knows where to point me to get current info, I would be grateful.

I would like to build a two way, with a horn tweeter, I built one 50 years ago, and liked the way it sounded. My goal is to build something that has relatively high sensitivity, say over 95 dB. I currently run a couple of pairs that have 89 dB sensitivity, and though they sound great, I think I could make a nice pair that because of their sensitivity could be a bit more dynamic, and have fuller bass.

I have good woodworking skills, and some electronics skills, however, I do not have much of any test equipment, so I do not want to start from scratch.

R
Click to expand...
This is one of those "choose #X from options Y" compromise things. You can't get efficiency, wide freq response, and reasonable size from a small package.
You can do efficiency and reasonable size if you let powered subs do the heavy lifting below mid-bass tange.
 
I am not worried about building a largish box, 6-10 cubic ft would not be out of the question.

My current speakers are a pair of Advent Graduates at 89db and a pair of Polk Monito 50s also at 89db.

I recapped and reformed the Advents, and they sound very good. The midrange is awwesum, Ella's Fitsgerald or Mingus sound very pleasing, except the bass falls off. The Polks also sound good. I would say quite different than the Advents, more neutral I guess. Not sure which I prefer, switch them out often.

my HT system drives the Polks as front with smaller satellites, and a subwoofer. When I listen to music on my HT system, I normally listen in 2 channel stereo, as that is the least processed output, and usually leave the sub off. I do that because occasionally there is weird distortion in the mid bass that is weird.

My 3-4 watt 6LU8 tube amp drives both to my comfort listening level. My media room is 16'x19' so room is not too big of an issue.

I do not need thundering bass, but would like to have more, my tube amp does not have a sub out, and while I could hook it up using speaker level inputs, I am not sure how well it would work with the HT system hooked up to the line level sub out of the HT system.

So, long story short, I understand that a loaded horn can provide increased bass output, in a way that is different from a normally ported bass reflex system. I also have 71 year old ears, so I am not too worried about much over 10kHz. This makes it easy to have a two way system with a horn loaded tweeter that crosses over below 2kHz, making the right woofer work less.

I looked through the econowave development, but with the parts used no longer available, I think I would be shooting in the dark to match drivers, crossover and box and be successful without test gear.

Any DIY stuff that is more up to date on READILY available components would be welcome. Many of the DIY links are over a decade old and not really feasible to confidently execute withdifferent components.

R
 
RogerA said:
I am not worried about building a largish box, 6-10 cubic ft would not be out of the question.

My current speakers are a pair of Advent Graduates at 89db and a pair of Polk Monito 50s also at 89db.

I recapped and reformed the Advents, and they sound very good. The midrange is awwesum, Ella's Fitsgerald or Mingus sound very pleasing, except the bass falls off. The Polks also sound good. I would say quite different than the Advents, more neutral I guess. Not sure which I prefer, switch them out often.

my HT system drives the Polks as front with smaller satellites, and a subwoofer. When I listen to music on my HT system, I normally listen in 2 channel stereo, as that is the least processed output, and usually leave the sub off. I do that because occasionally there is weird distortion in the mid bass that is weird.

My 3-4 watt 6LU8 tube amp drives both to my comfort listening level. My media room is 16'x19' so room is not too big of an issue.

I do not need thundering bass, but would like to have more, my tube amp does not have a sub out, and while I could hook it up using speaker level inputs, I am not sure how well it would work with the HT system hooked up to the line level sub out of the HT system.

So, long story short, I understand that a loaded horn can provide increased bass output, in a way that is different from a normally ported bass reflex system. I also have 71 year old ears, so I am not too worried about much over 10kHz. This makes it easy to have a two way system with a horn loaded tweeter that crosses over below 2kHz, making the right woofer work less.

I looked through the econowave development, but with the parts used no longer available, I think I would be shooting in the dark to match drivers, crossover and box and be successful without test gear.

Any DIY stuff that is more up to date on READILY available components would be welcome. Many of the DIY links are over a decade old and not really feasible to confidently execute withdifferent components.

R
Click to expand...
Your problem would be getting bass extension with a midwoofer that crosses over to the mid-tweeter with sufficient power margin. One that qualifies might be refurbed JBL L-14A drivers in a suitable enclosure.
 
Pio1980 said:
Your problem would be getting bass extension with a midwoofer that crosses over to the mid-tweeter with sufficient power margin. One that qualifies might be refurbed JBL L-14A drivers in a suitable enclosure.
Click to expand...
Isn't that what the econowave was designed for? Sure maybe not bass to 20-30Hz, but likely better than what I am listening to now. Not looking to make the absolute end al, ofspezkers.

R
 
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RogerA said:
Isn't that what the econowave was designed for? Sure maybe not bass to 20-30Hz, but likely better than what I am listening to now. Not looking to make the absolute end al, ofspezkers.

R
Click to expand...
One of them, the less expensive more common larger Advents came with the excellent mid-woofer and the enclosure. Their mid-tweeters and crossovers were where the compromises were most severe, which are replaced with the mods.
The LE-14A will be more costly and will likely need refurbishment by an expert.
 
If you can, get an LE14A or, better, and LE14H-1. Put it in a 4 cu. ft. box and get extension into the low 30s with the ability to cross at 1200Hz. I stopped building when I put these together. They're in Barzilay cabinets and my wife, who can't tell one speaker from another, will not let me replace these...she likes them and says they sound good. (PS - they do sound and test good)
 
turnitdown said:
If you can, get an LE14A or, better, and LE14H-1. Put it in a 4 cu. ft. box and get extension into the low 30s with the ability to cross at 1200Hz. I stopped building when I put these together. They're in Barzilay cabinets and my wife, who can't tell one speaker from another, will not let me replace these...she likes them and says they sound good. (PS - they do sound and test good)
Click to expand...
Is there no current production equivalent, or nearly so?
 
Hi all,
Long story short, I have a 6 cu. ft. enclosure I want to use for an ewave build. Budget $1k.
Baffle can be replaced/modified, and I can probably get net volume down to 5 cu. ft. through more bracing, etc.
I can't quite figure out what ewave design is for such a big enclosure. Would love to go with a passive xo that "just works", but figure DSP is going to be the smarter route to tackle any weirdness that comes up from my enclosure.
4pi has been suggested..
Calpamos is close, but a bit larger at 200L and out of budget.

Full disclosure, I'm crossposting from the DIY Audio forum – full post here. figured this group is more specifically honed into what I'm after.
 
chirs said:
Hi all,
Long story short, I have a 6 cu. ft. enclosure I want to use for an ewave build. Budget $1k.
Baffle can be replaced/modified, and I can probably get net volume down to 5 cu. ft. through more bracing, etc.
I can't quite figure out what ewave design is for such a big enclosure. Would love to go with a passive xo that "just works", but figure DSP is going to be the smarter route to tackle any weirdness that comes up from my enclosure.
4pi has been suggested..
Calpamos is close, but a bit larger at 200L and out of budget.

Full disclosure, I'm crossposting from the DIY Audio forum – full post here. figured this group is more specifically honed into what I'm after.
Click to expand...

I've wanted a pair of Altec Model 19s for a very long time, and this has led to thinking about an E-wave
version instead with a 15" woofer in a very large enclosure. Might that interest you?
It would require a big horn, unfortunate that the QSC 152i is NLA but this one IS available, linked in this post by mtg90:

Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

There's a 2mH here: https://www.wagneronline.com.au/inductor-crossover-solid-core-dayton/crossover-inductors/inductors/electronic-components/1000382/fl/
www.audiokarma.org

Here are measurements of the above clone horn:
www.mtg-designs.com

MTG Designs - EV ELX112 WG

Manufacturers Info Brand: Electro-Voice Model: ELX112 Style: Constant Directivity Coverage (H x V): 90 x 50 Minimum Frequency: --- Throat: 1" Mounting Type: 2-Bolt Dimensions (W x H x D): 12" x 8" x 4-1/8"
www.mtg-designs.com www.mtg-designs.com

I'd go with very high quality drivers given your budget, perhaps the ones used in Geddes' Summa, don't think
it is any secret as to what he used. I'd start with a Mini DSP crossover to keep it simple and then perhaps get
help to design a passive XO if you feel the need. Geddes did the research to find good drivers save you some pain.
Geddes' current version of the Summa is the NS15 and he states that it uses:
  • Speaker compliment: B&C 15NBX100 and DE500
Those drivers will blow your budget but the Summa cost many thousands of dollars if that helps at all.

If you wanted a very econo version I might go with these after checking their performance in a simulator and also
how close they are to the Model 19 woofer:

Parts Express: Speakers, Amplifiers, Audio Parts and Solutions

Your Audio Solutions HQ Since 1986. Shop Audio Parts from Speakers and Subwoofers to Home Theater and Pro Audio. Top Gear at Low Prices and FREE Shipping
www.parts-express.com

The PRV D230Ti was tested by mtg90 and did well but not sure if anyone tested it on that horn.

Remember that you can go with half the required box volume by providing 6 dB of boost in the mini DSP. Most
high efficiency systems don't go real low in the bass unless you have huge boxes. I seem to recall someone having
Altec 604s in 20 cuft boxes!

Do you have measurement gear or a friend with it?

We should start a new thread if you are interested, maybe the 15" Woofer Econowave?

JBL with a very unusual horn: https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...rest-inspiration-for-large-econowave.1046149/
 
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After literally years of procrastinating and reading through this forum, I'm finally going to work on the econowave modification of my old Advent 4002s. I've pretty much assembled all the parts for this, except for crossover components. After refurbishing the cabinets, getting the crossovers built is the remaining part of this. I've decided to plunge into a veneering process for the bullnose MDF cabinets. The original 4002 woofers were refoamed about 7 years ago, and were stored well and not used since then, so I don't think I need to do any work on those. I have a pair of D220Ti drivers to use, with waveguides ready for them. I do have the schematics for the <95 dB version of the crossover, so I'm looking for PCB boards for those. Does anyone have some they'd be willing to part with? In case anyone's interested, here's what the old crossovers looked like, and the nameplate.
 

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