Anti-skate setting question
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lini
just me...
Skating force is proportional to tracking force.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
Squirrel!
Member
But changing the tracking weight does nothing to the anti-skate, and vice-versa, changing the anti-skate does nothing to the tracking weight.
Greetings from Ohio!
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Exactly! Here are a some examples from my TTs: Marantz 6200 with AT-VM95SH, tracking set to 1.9 grams, anti skate is at max of 3. Rega Planar 3 with Exact 2 cart, tracking set a 1.75 grams, anti skate set at 1ish (the Rega RB330 arm has a slider with inaccurate numbers). SRM-Tech Azure (Rega P3) with AT-OC9XML tracking was set at 2.0 grams, anti skate set to near zero.
The easiest way to set your anti skate is to purchase a thin smooth acrylic mat (mine is 2mm thick), place the arm down on the platter/mat while it is rotating and adjust the anti skate to where the arm doesn't swing in to the center or off the outer edge of the platter- be very careful- I killed my OC9XML while doing this (I slipped and fell to the side a bit and the tonearm went flying).
I bought the mat here:
mkane
Lunatic Member
listen to the voice of reasonBut changing the tracking weight does nothing to the anti-skate, and vice-versa, changing the anti-skate does nothing to the tracking weight.
Greetings from Ohio!
Coolhandjjl
Embiggened Pompatus
It’s merely a starting point, that’s all. Current wisdom is to only apply about 1/2 of what’s recommended by that.
Seems to be about right on most tables (my Marantz 6200 being the exception)
Squirrel!
Member
Right on. I ask the question because I checked the anti-skate on my Music Hall US-1 (Chinese-made clone like the other clones
) after seeing/reading something about the anti-skate not working on these things. Sure enough, using the acrylic platter mat, sure enough, no adjustment would keep the needle stable and always to the center, never the outer edge. So this morning I took the machine apart and Re-set the spring location on the turning cog (lack of a better term for the part) to a pre-drilled hole that was further back on the cog to create more tension. While it helped to slow the skate to the center, no adjustment would stop the skating.
So I ended up manipulating the spring (read-bent the wire
) to create even further tension and VOILA! it works! No more skating!Seeing as how I was able to fix the issue, the determining factor to the failure is a spring that is too weak/not set-up correctly. That is a design flaw that the manufacturer should deal with...but they aren't. But I digress.
So I was thinking how the tracking weight and anti-skate adjustment being the same amount of 'force', how that came to be? Honestly, it seems like terrible advice as even Rega has issues with manufacturing based on your description of the numbers being off. And Rega, for the price, shouldn't have flaws like that IMO.
Sgt Shultz
Addicted Member
Mine is often at the lowest offered by the table short of removing the weight, this might or might not be 1/2 VTF depending on the arm/cart, but usually close. The AR XA has none other than the twist on the arm leads so no way to know. No scale on some like the Well Tempered Lab so again no way to know.
If throughout the cartridges life it's cantilever remains straight most likely it's anti-skate was close enough. If having a stylus re-tipped I'm thinking they could see the wear pattern and confirm one way or the other.
Mr Creosote
Super Member
I've used the smooth side of a CD on the TT. Drop the tone arm on the CD and set the anti-skate to the point that the arm remains steady, so it doesn't drift to the inside or the outside. On my SL 1210 with an AT 740ML set to 2g tracking and the anti-skate to 3, which is the max setting, the tonearm will still drift to the inside, but rather slowly.
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
correct antiskate is a moving target depending on a few different things. Setting a/s is a fixed setting, generally, so find a method you like, set it and forget it.
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lini
just me...
But changing the tracking weight does nothing to the anti-skate, and vice-versa, changing the anti-skate does nothing to the tracking weight.
Certainly not, because tracking force is not the only influence factor.
For example, two among the significant ones are the tip shape of the needle as well as dry/regular vs. wet/lubricated play. Hence for example the Thorens TP16 sports four scales on its antiskating indicator (for spherical and ellitical, 1x dry & 1x wet play each), whereas the antiskating wheels of several Dual models (includng for example the 721 and 621) sport three scales (for spherical, elliptical and "CD4" (Shibata & other line-contact variants), all for dry play). And Dual also provided an interesting diagram in the brochures for some of their models - see for example there: https://www.hifi-archiv.info/Dual/721pa/seite(5).jpg And they also had their own skating measurement device, namely the Skate-o-meter (see for example there: https://www.hifi-archiv.info/Dual/skateometer/), so that they had a good basis for calibrating their antiskating scales.
Unfortunately, however, yet another among the significant influence factors is the groove modulation, which of course varies with signal level and frequency (and in terms of length along the groove also with playback radius), which turns the skating force into a "moving target", so that a fixed antiskating setting will always be a compromise.
And of course another influence factor is the arm- & alignment-geometry-dependent tracking error angle curve over playback radius, as the angular deviation between the groove drag vector and the virtual tonearm axis (= the horizontal axis between needle tip and tonearm pivot), which is the geometrical cause for the skating force, can be split into the offset angle and the remaining positive or negative tracking error angle. The offset angle contributes the dominant share of that angular deviation, though, so that the remaining tracking error angle (typically less than +/- 10 % of the offset angle) is a way less variable and significant influence factor than the groove modulation.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
edit: typo extermination *sigh*
Squirrel!
Member
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Squirrel!
Member
With that being the case, then any and all anti-skate, once set, could be considered a compromise I guess. Because anti-skate doesn't get set per record. Seems to me, one should set the anti-skate so the stylus stays stable and does not move out or in from where it is placed. Once there, it is pretty much a done deal. Seems to me.
Coolhandjjl
Embiggened Pompatus
Yes, any a/s setting is a compromise!With that being the case, then any and all anti-skate, once set, could be considered a compromise I guess. Because anti-skate doesn't get set per record. Seems to me, one should set the anti-skate so the stylus stays stable and does not move out or in from where it is placed. Once there, it is pretty much a done deal. Seems to me.
I had a 6300 but with a 6 g headshell (stock headshell is 13.4 g) with a V15 IV tracking at 1.25 g'; AS set at the 2.5 g slot
Also had a Planar 3 (RB330) with Ania MC cart, VTF at 1.9 g, AS also 1ish. Not as nice (to me) to what I already have.... sold it.
With that being the case, then any and all anti-skate, once set, could be considered a compromise I guess. Because anti-skate doesn't get set per record. Seems to me, one should set the anti-skate so the stylus stays stable and does not move out or in from where it is placed. Once there, it is pretty much a done deal. Seems to me.
Years ago I read somewhere that when the arm is moving all so slightly towards the spindle, then you've got the AS just right.
Squirrel!
Member
But don't you want the needle to follow the groove and not lead into the groove?
