Best subwoofers?your favorites

[ultumax]

PA speakers are fantastic for their intended purpose, with lots of efficiency, and for no more travel that the woofers have, thump your body pretty good. But subwoofers they are not which is what this thread is about. Most music is completely void of anything below 35hz, so this is completely above the frequency range of a subwoofer.

Yeah well said !! My one friend does not seem to get it PA speakers are for live music and they do not have real subwoofers just a woofer for notes above 35hz.
Folded horn for home theater would be too big .
https://www.parts-express.com/peerl...-188pr01-04-15-high-power-subwoofer--264-1652
This sub has more wattage then my Si ht 15, by I think if I ever make another diy subwoofer nothings is better value then stereo integrity.

 

[Poultrygeist]

PA speakers are fantastic for their intended purpose, with lots of efficiency, and for no more travel that the woofers have, thump your body pretty good. But subwoofers they are not which is what this thread is about. Most music is completely void of anything below 35hz, so this is completely above the frequency range of a subwoofer.

I use Eminence 15" PE woofers in my open baffles and they easily reach 40 hz. But there's very little bass below 40 hz in the acoustic jazz that dominates my listening.

 

[ultumax]

The sub (Danley) isn't a DIY but my wife & I figured out a nice way to hide it!

Did you put the sub into the walls? Similar to infinity baffles .
Very cool !!
Imagine putting some 15-21” subs into walls then under your theater room from basement .
Would sound like Cinemark Xd.

 

[Coytee]

Did you put the sub into the walls? Similar to infinity baffles .
Very cool !!

I wouldn't call it similar to an infinity baffle...I'd rather call it a Danley DTS 10 stuffed into the area above a fireplace.

We had a ventless fireplace, wife wanted to build a masonry fireplace for it so we did it (ourselves). While putting it together, since there is no chimney, I said (probably in somewhat a smart-alec voice) "honey, what if we put one of those Danley's in there??"

She said "ok" just that quick. I ran to get a tape measure and it fits in there by about 1/4".

I had arm surgery so was unable to do anything about it...so my wife's cousin, his son in law & someone else came over. They hoisted it into place and they all just "marveled" at the craftsmanship that HAD to happen here because of how PERFECTLY it fit....

Well, what they don't know is it was simple plain stupid dumb luck!!! I had no clue it would actually fit. It LOOKED like it would fit after measuring but still wasn't sure. Take notice of the top of the woofer as it relates to the soffet.

Again, that was NOT planned..... total stroke of luck!!

 

[ultumax]

From what Ive used over the years, the Martin Logan Descent, Depth & Gotto, the REL ST and B series families are my favorites.

I really need to try one of those someday ,
Look at this Dayton it’s like a giant version of the def technology thing .
https://www.parts-express.com/passi...dual-passive-radiator-subwoofer-kit--300-7158

 

[ultumax]

Infinity Modulus subwoofer pictured with the Modulus mains, not mine but I do have the set and it will never be sold. Beats the hell out of my twin 12" Dayton subs. The aluminum ribs running down the right corner are the amp heat sinks. Not the earth shaking sub most look for when thinking HT, but if looking for a "musical" subwoofer I've never heard better.

View attachment 1297192

The external control unit makes adjustments a breeze and I like that it has an adjustable high pass with dip switches on the rear.

View attachment 1297193

Not cheap when new in 1990 at $2000 but I see them pop up on eBay from time to time for around $800, if interested make sure the control unit is there and the foam surrounds need replacement every ten yrs or so. One other thing, it's heavy, 81lbs so hope you ate your Wheaties if picking one up lol.

ITs sad this brand died of sars , why do such good brands go bankruptcy? Lack of sales I take it or loss of company to makers of soundbars??

 

[RickeyM]

This is an early pic of my DIY sub. It's a 23" cube with a 15" DVC Cerwin-Vega driver. It's finished in sandstone textured paint with rounded edges. In a 5.3 cu-ft sealed box WinISD says it has a -3db point of 23Hz and that's without factoring room gain. At the time it was driven by a 230-w.p.c. stereo power amp. I've chickened out before I ever reached it's limits but it was clean & tight all the way. The enclosure is simply too big to be practical so it's in storage currently. If I get those Emotiva mono-blocks I'll build a box that looks like a mini-fridge and drive it with my XPA-DR2.

 

[ultumax]

This is an early pic of my DIY sub. It's a 23" cube with a 15" DVC Cerwin-Vega driver. It's finished in sandstone textured paint with rounded edges. In a 5.3 cu-ft sealed box WinISD says it has a -3db point of 23Hz and that's without factoring room gain. At the time it was driven by a 230-w.p.c. stereo power amp. I've chickened out before I ever reached it's limits but it was clean & tight all the way. The enclosure is simply too big to be practical so it's in storage currently. If I get those Emotiva mono-blocks I'll build a box that looks like a mini-fridge and drive it with my XPA-DR2.

Very nice work this box is around same size as a mini fridge you know . My bedroom sub is around the same size maybe slightly smaller .
Cerwin Is really good brand , for bass lovers . I hear there modern stuff as not as good as
Vintage no idea if that’s true or not.
My theater sub Is lacking for music too much xmax . Sometimes it’s not concise or fast enough to keep up .

 

[fill35u]

I haven't seen JTR mentioned yet:

http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-4000ulf.html

Not cheap, but a good value nonetheless.

Factors for choosing subs:

1. How many? Usually takes two to be able to get a reasonably flat response at a single listening position, three is better, especially for multiple listening positions, four starts getting into diminishing returns.

2. How big can the cabinets be? This can affect the type of cabinets, as sealed will always have the least volume, ported bigger, bandpass even bigger, and horns while usually biggest will still be suboptimal(!) size for sub frequencies. Hofmann's Iron Law.

3. How much freedom do you have in placing the subs around the room?

4. How low a frequency do you want to go at what volume?

5. Do you want tactile response- chest thump, the feeling of room pressurization? Which is more important?

6. Powered sub or not? If not, or DIY, what kind of amp power do you have available?

7. Are you willing/able to DIY?

8. Upper extension to cross to main speakers, or other subs?

9. Budget?

Juggle all that...

Multiple smaller/cheaper/weaker subs can equal one bigger/expensive/stronger sub. The reason many of the commercial subs are so expensive is because of tremendous market pressure to keep the boxes small. Smaller boxes often require smaller drivers, which then need more excursion for the same bass. A smaller box means less efficiency and/or higher cutoff frequency. This requires a stronger driver that can handle more power. High excursion, high power, low cutoff frequency subwoofer drivers are the opposite of cheap. What *is* cheap is plywood/MDF and atmosphere. Enough big boxes with cheap drivers will beat the most expensive commercial offering on value- but few people would accept that approach.

DIY isn't for everybody, and whether it saves money in the big picture is debatable. Even if you don't have to invest in tools, education, and experience, you have to figure out if your time is worth it. OTOH, you can plan and build exactly what you want, to look, fit, and perform in a way that no commercial offering can.

I currently run a variety of big DIY subs. If I ever wanted to upgrade, it would probably be to a Double Bass Array. That would fix the number of drivers to eight identical ones, so I'd probably go with 21" drivers as an upgrade. Cabinet volume for the baffle wall wouldn't be a problem, so I might make them all LLT ported. And I'd invest $200 or so in eight cheap 10" or 12" drivers to do a "proof of concept" for the locations before before building the real thing. The only downside might be a lot less tactile response then I have now.

 

[ultumax]

I haven't seen JTR mentioned yet:

http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-4000ulf.html

Not cheap, but a good value nonetheless.

Factors for choosing subs:

1. How many? Usually takes two to be able to get a reasonably flat response at a single listening position, three is better, especially for multiple listening positions, four starts getting into diminishing returns.

2. How big can the cabinets be? This can affect the type of cabinets, as sealed will always have the least volume, ported bigger, bandpass even bigger, and horns while usually biggest will still be suboptimal(!) size for sub frequencies. Hofmann's Iron Law.

3. How much freedom do you have in placing the subs around the room?

4. How low a frequency do you want to go at what volume?

5. Do you want tactile response- chest thump, the feeling of room pressurization? Which is more important?

6. Powered sub or not? If not, or DIY, what kind of amp power do you have available?

7. Are you willing/able to DIY?

8. Upper extension to cross to main speakers, or other subs?

9. Budget?

Juggle all that...

Multiple smaller/cheaper/weaker subs can equal one bigger/expensive/stronger sub. The reason many of the commercial subs are so expensive is because of tremendous market pressure to keep the boxes small. Smaller boxes often require smaller drivers, which then need more excursion for the same bass. A smaller box means less efficiency and/or higher cutoff frequency. This requires a stronger driver that can handle more power. High excursion, high power, low cutoff frequency subwoofer drivers are the opposite of cheap. What *is* cheap is plywood/MDF and atmosphere. Enough big boxes with cheap drivers will beat the most expensive commercial offering on value- but few people would accept that approach.

DIY isn't for everybody, and whether it saves money in the big picture is debatable. Even if you don't have to invest in tools, education, and experience, you have to figure out if your time is worth it. OTOH, you can plan and build exactly what you want, to look, fit, and perform in a way that no commercial offering can.

I currently run a variety of big DIY subs. If I ever wanted to upgrade, it would probably be to a Double Bass Array. That would fix the number of drivers to eight identical ones, so I'd probably go with 21" drivers as an upgrade. Cabinet volume for the baffle wall wouldn't be a problem, so I might make them all LLT ported. And I'd invest $200 or so in eight cheap 10" or 12" drivers to do a "proof of concept" for the locations before before building the real thing. The only downside might be a lot less tactile response then I have now.

Wow so you have pictures of these mega subwoofers ?8 identical drivers like that one basement loaded horn house sub .
Sounds amazing !!!
That would wipe the floor with any sub designed by hsu , svs or anything.
How do you even move 8 subs in 1 enclosure ? A dolly( some sort of mobile rig thing ? On wheeels
My 15” is in a 5 cubic Foot box , so 8 would need what a 25 cubic foot mega sized box??

 

[fill35u]

How do you even move 8 subs in 1 enclosure ?

A Double Bass Array is not designed to be moved, in fact the driver locations are very specific and fixed by the definition of the design. The enclosures are usually baffle walls, so the drivers are either mounted into the existing wall (if the structure is sealed), or built as an outward extension of the existing walls. Four drivers in a front baffle wall, four drivers in the back baffle wall.

An 8 foot tall by 12 foot wide by 1 foot deep baffle wall has almost 100 cubic feet. Some folks give up that same room volume for floor-to-ceiling bookshelves, lifestyle choice.

 

[Dswankey]

Look at this Dayton it’s like a giant version of the def technology thing .
https://www.parts-express.com/passi...dual-passive-radiator-subwoofer-kit--300-7158

https://www.parts-express.com/peerl...-188pr01-04-15-high-power-subwoofer--264-1652
This sub has more wattage then my Si ht 15, by I think if I ever make another diy subwoofer nothings is better value then stereo integrity.

How & why did you come to choose the name Ultumax for your AK name?

His username, if anyone has wondered is a play on, or more plausible a spelling error (U is next to I on QWERTY keyboards), a sub woofer called the "Ultimax" made by Dayton Audio which I believe is a house brand for Parts Express. They are both located in the same town, same street outside/nearish to Dayton OH.

He's obsessed with subwoofers as that is primarily what he has posted about since he joined AK

Interestingly there was an AK'er by the name of @ultimax who joined on June 11th 2015 yet never posted once and hasn't been seen since. Another thing is @ultumax was dormant from Dec 2014 and reappears on June 13th 2015.

Maybe someone at or associated with PE and or Dayton Audio is having some fun here on the boards.

His spelling, punctuation etc was somewhat more fluent and coherent back when he joined in 2013 not sure if he's purposely misspelling and making no sense along with all the unnecessary pictures and memes .

 

[ultumax]

How & why did you come to choose the name Ultumax for your AK name?

Used to play a ton of final fantasy 10 , it’s part a username I used for video games originally.

I don’t live anywhere near the Dayton factory but it’s very cool they have a sub with almost the same name . I’ve considered making a diy sub with those drivers but too low on funds right now haha .

 

[Dswankey]

Why did you keep referencing & linking to Dayton & PE in this thread?

I’d like a Dayton ultimax sub but not sure if there as good $339 for a 18” tho.
Plenty of bas for a 12” x 12” room probably like work for a room twice that size .

Hope to find a job someday so I can try other subs
Dayton ultimax looks nice but not sure how the pre-built box is .

Pa subs can go low enough for theater
I wonder if Dayton ultimax sub is good and how good the sealed box pre built is ?

Is this a fake rtr or is BIC America actually a decent brand ? https://www.parts-express.com/bic-rtr-ev1200-12-subwoofer-475-watts--303-464
Klipsch look alike ? https://www.parts-express.com/bic-acoustech-h-100ii-12-powered-subwoofer--303-414

https://www.parts-express.com/bic-formula-f-12-12-475-watt-subwoofer--303-436
Anyone else’s list there favorites??

Very nice , I was looking at drivers
https://www.parts-express.com/peerl...-188pr01-04-15-high-power-subwoofer--264-1652
This one seems very costly though for a 15”.
What Is a neo sub? Only goes 35hz?
https://www.parts-express.com/bc-15ds115-4-15-neodymium-subwoofer-4-ohm--294-6058

Might as well buy stereo integrity or a high end brand parts express has This underpowered sub for $500 i wonder why https://www.parts-express.com/wavecor-sw312wa06-12-1-4-black-aluminum-cone-subwoofer-8-ohm--298-1088
Dayton titanic is gone , ultimax looks good .
New super cube is not 8” I’ve heard amplifier dies a lot on definitely technological subs isn’t this true ? These could save lots of space.

 

[ultumax]

Why did you keep referencing & linking to Dayton & PE in this thread?

I’ve considered there drivers as they are cheap , but I decide to go with stereo integrity.
They do not make a 21” or anything on parts express .
I don’t know many audio sites , I haven’t referenced them in a while .
I don’t live even close to them , I’m in canton .
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&sxsrf=ACYBGNTQUZX36zIU7EKhm9WIF_C21jqyag:1570046741183&ei=FQOVXfnfCreBjLsPreeEkAw&q=dayton+to+canton+ohio&oq=dayton+to+canton+ohio&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.12..0i71l5.0.0..8192...0.1..0.0.0.......0.JampYyNcqos#
My car cannot even drive 3 hours haha . Its a junk corolla .The strongest magic spell in ffx is ultuma , one of the bosses is ultuma weapon .
Have you not played final fantasy 10 before ?
One of best games I ever played.

I didn’t even know about parts Express until after I used this site. The sub isn’t ultumax
Its ultimax .
Why didn’t stereo integrity discontinue there affordable drivers?? Everything so expensive now!???

 

[fill35u]

Parts-express/Dayton is an *extremely* popular distributor/manufacturer for the DIY and repair communities. Their Ultimax, HO/HF Reference series, and PA-460 subs have always been strong performers and some of the best values. They (and Stereo Integrity) are the baselines against which other sub drivers are usually compared.

FWIW there have been occasional quality issues with Ultimax drivers, and some folks have run into trouble with the Reference series, so they're not perfect. But again they represent some of the best *value*, and PE/Dayton is a very strong supporter of the DIY community.

Hard to talk DIY subs and not mention PE/Dayton, their products, or them as a source for other brands' products.

 

[RickeyM]

Very nice work this box is around same size as a mini fridge you know . My bedroom sub is around the same size maybe slightly smaller .
Cerwin Is really good brand , for bass lovers . I hear there modern stuff as not as good as
Vintage no idea if that’s true or not.
My theater sub Is lacking for music too much xmax . Sometimes it’s not concise or fast enough to keep up .

It's a bit bigger than one of those cube mini fridges. The new box will be like one of those taller ones. For reference, that's a CD case sitting on the top. It was blocking the door to a storage area so I put it away.

 

[ultumax]

I haven't seen JTR mentioned yet:

http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-4000ulf.html

Not cheap, but a good value nonetheless.

Factors for choosing subs:

1. How many? Usually takes two to be able to get a reasonably flat response at a single listening position, three is better, especially for multiple listening positions, four starts getting into diminishing returns.

2. How big can the cabinets be? This can affect the type of cabinets, as sealed will always have the least volume, ported bigger, bandpass even bigger, and horns while usually biggest will still be suboptimal(!) size for sub frequencies. Hofmann's Iron Law.

3. How much freedom do you have in placing the subs around the room?

4. How low a frequency do you want to go at what volume?

5. Do you want tactile response- chest thump, the feeling of room pressurization? Which is more important?

6. Powered sub or not? If not, or DIY, what kind of amp power do you have available?

7. Are you willing/able to DIY?

8. Upper extension to cross to main speakers, or other subs?

9. Budget?

Juggle all that...

Multiple smaller/cheaper/weaker subs can equal one bigger/expensive/stronger sub. The reason many of the commercial subs are so expensive is because of tremendous market pressure to keep the boxes small. Smaller boxes often require smaller drivers, which then need more excursion for the same bass. A smaller box means less efficiency and/or higher cutoff frequency. This requires a stronger driver that can handle more power. High excursion, high power, low cutoff frequency subwoofer drivers are the opposite of cheap. What *is* cheap is plywood/MDF and atmosphere. Enough big boxes with cheap drivers will beat the most expensive commercial offering on value- but few people would accept that approach.

DIY isn't for everybody, and whether it saves money in the big picture is debatable. Even if you don't have to invest in tools, education, and experience, you have to figure out if your time is worth it. OTOH, you can plan and build exactly what you want, to look, fit, and perform in a way that no commercial offering can.

I currently run a variety of big DIY subs. If I ever wanted to upgrade, it would probably be to a Double Bass Array. That would fix the number of drivers to eight identical ones, so I'd probably go with 21" drivers as an upgrade. Cabinet volume for the baffle wall wouldn't be a problem, so I might make them all LLT ported. And I'd invest $200 or so in eight cheap 10" or 12" drivers to do a "proof of concept" for the locations before before building the real thing. The only downside might be a lot less tactile response then I have now.

Wow 4000 watts rms ? The bass output must be incredible. It may be possible to out Value it by dui but how do they make it so smooth with minimal distortion a lot of tuning. ??

Haha I said dui , I mean diy.

 

[GordonW]

Yeah well said !! My one friend does not seem to get it PA speakers are for live music and they do not have real subwoofers just a woofer for notes above 35hz.
Folded horn for home theater would be too big .
https://www.parts-express.com/peerl...-188pr01-04-15-high-power-subwoofer--264-1652
This sub has more wattage then my Si ht 15, by I think if I ever make another diy subwoofer nothings is better value then stereo integrity.

Depends on the PA subwoofer.

We have a set of six cabinets, four with 15" woofers and two with 18"s, that are measured flat to an anechoic f3 of 25Hz. 95dB sensitivity at 1 watt as well.

Of course, it takes a 2 foot by 2 foot by 4 foot enclosure to do this, for each cabinet...

They have a bandwidth of only 25- 50Hz or so- we low-pass them at about 38Hz, to blend in with the regular main double-18 cabinets we also use (which roll off at about 35Hz).

It's pretty devastating on EDM...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[ultumax]

Depends on the PA subwoofer.

We have a set of six cabinets, four with 15" woofers and two with 18"s, that are measured flat to an anechoic f3 of 25Hz. 95dB sensitivity at 1 watt as well.

Of course, it takes a 2 foot by 2 foot by 4 foot enclosure to do this, for each cabinet...

They have a bandwidth of only 25- 50Hz or so- we low-pass them at about 38Hz, to blend in with the regular main double-18 cabinets we also use (which roll off at about 35Hz).

It's pretty devastating on EDM...

Regards,
Gordon.

I’ve only checked pa sub drivers on parts Express that’s probably why I think they don’t go too low . I forgot about port tubing supposedly you can go as low as you require .
Pro subwoofers are capable of some serious powerfully output .