Cerwin Vega Dissapointment

[bshorey]

What he said. If you were playing with the crossovers, then you should double check the phasing all the way through. It could be something simple like the wiring between the terminals and the crossover.

That said, if a single speaker sounded weak in the bass, then there may be something else going on here. Maybe with the new surrounds they need to be run in for a bit?

Like others, I've never heard a CV that was weak on bass.

bs

 

[Hanleyster]

What track are you playing to test the bass?
What amp/receiver are you using?
Try a different room?
Bass is really finicky... Depending on where I place speakers in my house I get almost zero bass or TONS.

 

[Alobar]

cleaned up the crossovers and fired them up.

Don't know what cleaning the crossovers entailed but maybe they need to be rebuilt.f the caps are shot it could effect bass. Also if these have alnico magnets they could need recharging depending on how hard they have been driven in the past.

 

[Jayrosc]

What track are you playing to test the bass?
What amp/receiver are you using?
Try a different room?
Bass is really finicky... Depending on where I place speakers in my house I get almost zero bass or TONS.

I'm running these off of an NAD 7600...plenty of power. Looking over all these posts I've decided to hope the new foam needs to break in. Toward that end, I'm running heavy stuff all evening: AC/DC, Green Day. With any luck that will do something. Still, I'm comparing these to speakers with similar three way driver array, like JBL 4312's and the speakers seen under the CV's in the pics, and I gotta say the CV's have got a LONG way to go....I mean, no kick drum! How is that possible? I wonder if the woofers are full range or if they do have a cap on them, but it seems odd that they would lose the lowest tones.

 

[turboyam]

Something is wrong, take our word for it!. Does the surrounds you got have a grey back and pink front?. Most Cerwin's have a dual
layer surround, laminated together. Makes the surrounds stiffer then your average woofers so they are more efficient.

 

[Jayrosc]

Something is wrong, take our word for it!. Does the surrounds you got have a grey back and pink front?. Most Cerwin's have a dual
layer surround, laminated together. Makes the surrounds stiffer then your average woofers so they are more efficient.

Yeah. That's exactly what these are. They feel heavy. I think they are a quality product.

 

[hnash53]

Any chance the voice coils are rubbing a little? I refoamed some Infinity RS 5b woofers and one sounded good and the other had a rubbing voice coil... sounded horrid. Refoamed that one again and got it right.

Check again to see/feel if the voice coils are rubbing in one/both speakers.

2 cents.

 

[Jayrosc]

This mornings verdict: everything is connected properly, speakers are in phase. I've placed them all over the place....on the floor, on the floor in the corner, up against the wall, a foot away from the wall, back up high again, etc. At this point I see only two possible issues: 1. break in period for new foam, or, 2. Bad capacitors.
Got no choice but to just let these run and run and see what happens. Really don't want to recap as this particular pair has crossovers that were almost dipped in glue.
Regardless, I suspect that these might actually be working to their full potential, but I just don't like how they sound. Others I have just do it better. Period.
The CV's are now for sale. Fun experiment, now I know about Cerwin Vega's!

 

[turboyam]

Try connecting a pair of jumpers from the cabinet terminals directly to the woofers, you'll see if it's the x-over. Otherwise,
send them to me for proper disposal!

 

[whoaru99]

This mornings verdict: everything is connected properly, speakers are in phase. I've placed them all over the place....on the floor, on the floor in the corner, up against the wall, a foot away from the wall, back up high again, etc. At this point I see only two possible issues: 1. break in period for new foam, or, 2. Bad capacitors.
Got no choice but to just let these run and run and see what happens. Really don't want to recap as this particular pair has crossovers that were almost dipped in glue.
Regardless, I suspect that these might actually be working to their full potential, but I just don't like how they sound. Others I have just do it better. Period.
The CV's are now for sale. Fun experiment, now I know about Cerwin Vega's!

I doubt it's capacitors. First, I'd be surprized if there was a cap in the woofer circuit - maybe, but a quick look should establish that. It would be of relatively large value compared to the other caps in there. Far as the other caps, I believe my D9s have film caps as OEM. Not impossible they'd be bad but unlikely, IMO.

 

[DonQuixote99]

I've got a semi-orphan HED here (that is, two speakers, one woofer). Not the OP models, these just say HED without any number. The first of the HED line, maybe? Same 12" woofer as the D7, BTW.

Anyway, prompted by this thread I hooked the one up. It has loud, efficient, pretty percussive bass, and a very loud, coarse high end. Use it only when you want loud bass, don't really care much about musicality in the mid-range, and like piercing highs. In other words, it's for blasting to the blasted. As everyone always says, party speakers.

But I definitely wouldn't say the bass was AWOL, as the OP says....

 

[Northwinds]

Fun experiment, now I know about Cerwin Vega's!

No disrespect but obviously you don't, you have how many replies here saying otherwise with their experiences with CV's? Something is not right with them. Did your amp get switched to 16 or 32ohm somehow because that is the only way I could think of short of smoked woofers. I was playing my D9's the first night I refoamed them and they did not need any break in time at all, they were shaking the back bedroom on the other side of the house LOL Deb was screaming for me to turn it down because she could not hear her phone conversation

No CV's I have ever heard lacked for bass

 

[Chris Brown]

I would love to see a picture of the back of the woofer, just to see what we are actually dealing with here. I don't have any experience with the HED series, but I had two pairs of D-9s at one point and the bass was pretty amazing. Here is a picture of the D-9's woofers for comparison, from two different generations of D-9 actually.

 

[DonQuixote99]

People use CVs hard, and the woofers die. Cheap replacements might well be the OPs problem.

 

[DEFTECHY]

wimpy little magnets... ive seen bigger magnets on some 6x9 car speakers!! lol.

& no disrespect to northwinds or others, but obviously you dont understand that opinions can vary greatly with speakers... doesnt mean "something is not right with them." as i stated, my experience with cv's was very poor... compared to other speakers of the time with 12" woofers, or the 10's or 15's... cv's indeed lacked bass & overall sound quality. granted the bass wasnt totally AWOL, it was there & they were "loud" but thats about it. nothing amazing or impressive about the speakers at all.

& theres no way to judge the OP's perception or opinion of the speakers, he said he verified the phase & placed them all around the room with no improvements. to me that says he simply doesnt like them compared to the other speakers he mentioned. short of the woofers being partially blown or the re-foam has made the woofer off center & not functioning right, i tend to believe his observations... cv's just dont compare to many other similar sized speakers IMO. & that comes from quite a bit of experience with them & A/B comparisons to other speakers. i have tested them in my own house, at friends houses, & quite a bit when new at audio stores... like i said, even lower priced MTX 12" speakers were better all around & the 12" klipsch forte will embarrass a 12" cv & the 15" klipsch chorus are also much better than the d-9's... IMO of course. everyones opinions vary tho.

 

[Djcoolray]

Cheap replacement woofers could be a problem or an under powered receiver...

It takes a massive receiver to push a pair of CV's, if your not pushing at least a 100 watts.....forget about it ! I know someone with a sixty watt amp is going to say theirs sound just fine. But, if your Reciever isn't a pig for amps you can't get any real sound from a pair of CV's.

 

[Jayrosc]

I would love to see a picture of the back of the woofer, just to see what we are actually dealing with here. I don't have any experience with the HED series, but I had two pairs of D-9s at one point and the bass was pretty amazing. Here is a picture of the D-9's woofers for comparison, from two different generations of D-9 actually.

Okay. Here's pics of the woofer plus the crossover. Thanks to all for trying to help me sort it out. Except for this one issue, these speakers really deliver. LOUD and CLEAR. I'd love to have them hitting on all cylinders. And to be very clear, these do produce some bass and no doubt there are many that might even think they do it well. They are just not digging as deep as other 12 inchers, even ten inch, that I've been comparing them to. Best way I can say it is this: I'm looking for volume that puts bass, mid and treble on an even plane...call it 10 each. Right now these are as follows: Bass-5, Mid-10, Treble-10.

 

[xero-D-hero]

Was it stated where the mid & high frequency pots were set on these HED 3000 ? Were the mid/high pots even cleaned ?? Is so maybe I missed that ???
Also,there absolutely can be issues with the circuit breakers in CV crossovers as well. Not wanting to mess with the crossovers just because they're encased in glue leaves plenty of doubt whether they're 100% or not,so that right there tends to suggest a possible rush to judgement with regards to this particular pair of speakers.

Anyhow,condemning the CV brand as a whole because of one model of speaker that is old as $#!t and could have ??? problems just seems a bit presumptive to me.
Also,as a CV guy,the HED series would NOT be my first choice as the "flag bearer" for the CV brand,to be honest that series really does'nt do much for me at all.
So I would hafta agree that the OP probably does'nt know about all CV speakers,all we know for sure is that he knows about these specific CV speakers.

Anyhow,I agree that speakers are an extremely subjective area of this hobby,and sometimes a given pair of speakers just dont "do it" for one persons tastes,so it could be that these HED 3000 just are'nt a good fit for the OP's needs,only he can make that decision.

FWIW

Bret P.

 

[DonQuixote99]

Okay. Here's pics of the woofer plus the crossover. Thanks to all for trying to help me sort it out. Except for this one issue, these speakers really deliver. LOUD and CLEAR. I'd love to have them hitting on all cylinders. And to be very clear, these do produce some bass and no doubt there are many that might even think they do it well. They are just not digging as deep as other 12 inchers, even ten inch, that I've been comparing them to. Best way I can say it is this: I'm looking for volume that puts bass, mid and treble on an even plane...call it 10 each. Right now these are as follows: Bass-5, Mid-10, Treble-10.

Those are definitely CV woofers. More than that I canna say.

 

[Jayrosc]

Just found this: I think these are the very same speakers:
Here are the specs for the U-123 as stated in Stereo Review's Buying Guide from 1982:
Three-way rear-ported tuned bookshelf speaker system with 12-inch cast aluminum frame woofer, 5 inch cone midrange, and i inch voice coil horn tweeter; frequency response 45-17,000 Hz +/- 4 dB; crossovers @ 700 and 4000 Hz; sensitivity 96 dB/W/m; input range 5-60 W continuous; 8 ohm impedance; midrange and tweeter level controls....................$248.
Enjoy!
I'm not aware of frequency response as far as bass goes...is that the 45 number? If so, is that deep? If not, what is considered deep?