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Cerwin Vega Dissapointment

It has been my impression that the HED series was an attempt by CV to get away from their "boom/crash" roots and produce a "higher end" sounds.

The last gasps of a dying brand, the HED series never really caught on because it did not have that CV sound.
 
I think the 123 are known to be weak on bass
Weaker

I have hed h-15 15" two-way twin bullet tweeter

A little too bright on some recordings that becomes very fatiguing but otherwise a nice speaker with enough bass
Can't compare to other cv
 
So I am assuming you can increase the bass in these by reworking the pass frequencies in the crossover? The drivers look to be pretty much CV

You don't need huge magnets for bass response, most of that is the cab and crossover design
 
The HED U123 & CV3000 are different speakers.granted they look much the same,and both are from the HED series,but definitely 2 different model numbers,so I would'nt count on the specs being 100% the same between them,as there could've been revisions of some sort,ballpark numbers yeah,just take 'em w/a grain of salt.

That's a lot like the CV E-312 & E-712.

FWIW

Bret P.
 
The ones I reported on earlier are U-321s. Didn't recognize that number as a model number, that's all. Same woofer in this model as the D7s I've seen. Got an orphan D5 and it has a slightly lighter woofer.

As for the question "is 45 hz deep?" well, in genaral, deep enough for rock, unless you have some really deep extremes of the bass guitar in action, or electronica with low synth notes. But other instruments often go down to 30 hz, and may go lower. Some pipe organs go as low as 16 hz.

Here's a handy chart: http://www.digitaldjtips.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/frequency-ranges.png
 
A word from the wise on CV's....

Use your receiver and EQ to adjust the bass then the mid and high pots on the back of the speakers to initially adjust mids and tweets then finish up with the EQ. Adjustment
 
Maybe you need to grow a pair of these?
 

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It has been my impression that the HED series was an attempt by CV to get away from their "boom/crash" roots and produce a "higher end" sounds.

The last gasps of a dying brand, the HED series never really caught on because it did not have that CV sound.
I think you're onto something here. After reading this this morning I've dropped the idea of trying to get these to function well with bone crushing rock music. That would work with those other CV speakers that appear to be made exactly for such stuff. I'm now giving this particular set of CV's a chance with other music like classical, broadway and 1950's vocal pop such as sinatra, bobby vinton, etc.
Well guess what.
If what you are saying is correct, then CV hit it out of the park. That it didn't catch on with consumers is unfortunate, but understandable given the CV's reputation for the boom/crash. You don't go to a Jeep dealer looking for something that rides like a Lincoln. These speakers have a quality similar to a pair of University's I had awhile ago, another three way design, but with a 15 inch woofer. Even with that big driver the university's had a hard time with some lower bass passages in the music I just mentioned but excelled with dreamy sounds in the mid/high area. The CV's here have that same dreamy, clear sound BUT bring more bass to the equation than the old universitys. No, not thunderous, but that's not what this music is about.
In summary, I now think I was asking these speakers to do things they were not born to do, but now that I've discovered their calling I'm pretty happy. I may take everything out of the vinyl cabinets, crossover included, and put them in a new home: I picked up a pair of these not long ago, but they contain mediocre drivers from the 60's and sound like a not very good console unit. The CV stuff inside these cabinets might be a very good match.
 

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yeah good thing to consiser that i forgot to mention is the freq range... the 45 is definitely on the high side as far as bass freq response goes... most speakers dip into the mid to lower 30hz for bass. subwoofers usually extend down to the 20's & some even in the teens. at those levels the bass isnt really heard like a kick drum its felt in the floor & furniture & your insides. if you can check the specs of the other speakers you have that you feel produce better bass maybe thats the answer here, the CV's just dont dig deep enough to give you that lower bass sensation you get from the other speakers. & to me thats another "flaw" or shortcoming on many CV speakers... they jjust dont have the low bass that many other speakers do. shoot a pair of def tech speakers i have with 6.5" woofers are rated to like 32hz & produce incredible bass for the size wooofer they have. i know CV made some passive subs back in the time these models were made, kind of says the even CV realized their speakers werent big bass producers... & for awhile in the 90's they had a very good rated powered sub, not sure what they offer today but if you plan to keep these maybe a sub will address the lacking bass.

& yes its a good idea to replace any caps that are 20+ years old & the circuit breakers can have issues as mentioned... i remember on almost every pair of CV's that had the mid & high adjuster knobs, they all were scratchy & would cut out when moved, even when only a few years old.
 
I may take everything out of the vinyl cabinets, crossover included, and put them in a new home: I picked up a pair of these not long ago, but they contain mediocre drivers from the 60's and sound like a not very good console unit. The CV stuff inside these cabinets might be a very good match.

That might work--if cabinet sizes match, and port sizes (diameter and length of tube) match or can be made to match...
 
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be carefull about mix matching drivers & cabinets... woofers are matched to cabinet size & tuned based on those specs, unless you know what youre doing or have a program to show proper drivers & cabinet volume you are just guessing & the results will usually be less than what the original design was. worth a try though if you want to take a chance....
 
Both my CV E-712 & LS-12 are rated down to 28Hz,so JMO but no need for a sub with either of those.
And FWIW my MTX/AAL 212b are only rated down to 38Hz. (FYI: There are 2x 12" MTX woofers in each of those cabinets folks)

Even the "big" MTX 15" sub (SW1515) only goes down to 27Hz,had even considered adding a pair of those to my 212b just to see how that would work out.
Now the "big" 15" Klipsch (SW115),that sub does go down to 18Hz,so odds are if DEEP bass is what one is after,that would definitely be a sub to consider.

Food for thought for all the bass-heads reading this thread.

Bret P.
 
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hey someone familiar with the MTX series of speakers! i used to own 2 pair of the AAL212's, thats 8- 12" woofers! i sold both pairs to a friend that then added 2 more pairs running off a 105wpc onkyo receiver with 3 more onkyo amps at the same power (modern onkyo amps have daisy chain RCA connections, in&out) so thats 8 of these speakers with 16 12" woofers hes running! these are for all out rocking & being the source for music in a drum room, so the mid & tweet sound quality isnt nothing special... but when all those woofers get moving its pretty impressive for only being 100 watts to each speaker. the quantity of speakers gives such a full sound that high decibles arent needed.

& i still own the single 12" version of the mtx 212's which are what i compared to my 12" CV's back when i had them, i think they were the D-7 model with the bullet tweet & the 5" mid with a grille cover on it. decent speakers, i dont mean to say CV suck, just that i got more out of the comparable MTX. also before the AAL line MTX had the "magnum" line, same basic speaker & cabinet & all but they had more mids & tweets & actually sounded better IMO than the AAL's that were 3 way, with one mid & one tweet inline, the magnums mids & tweet was set off to the side, they had a bunch of thin red lines painted on the face of them too. anyone remember those? i cant find a single pic on a google search or really any info on them. for a teenager those were the coolest things around when paired with some vector research gear or onkyo at 100watts!
 
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Cheap replacement woofers could be a problem or an under powered receiver...

It takes a massive receiver to push a pair of CV's, if your not pushing at least a 100 watts.....forget about it ! I know someone with a sixty watt amp is going to say theirs sound just fine. But, if your Receiver isn't a pig for amps you can't get any real sound from a pair of CV's.

"A massive receiver to push a pair of CVs", really??? I don't know about your CV's but the pair I have will rock your house with little power. I have a pair of 316-R's, 15" woofers and 103dB's w/1 watt...Push to much power thru these babies and you'll wind up replacing your picture window in your house. As far as performance goes the old CV's sound a lot better than the new ones (IMHO).
 
Those photos of the crossover seem to be missing something. Normally you'd find at least one or two larger value electrolytics- it's hard to do a 3-way without them. Is it a 3-way? I'd also measure the resistance directly across the woofer, probably about 6 ohms, then measure right into the rear terminals. That shouldn't be a lot higher, maybe 7 ohms or so.
 
"A massive receiver to push a pair of CVs", really??? I don't know about your CV's but the pair I have will rock your house with little power. I have a pair of 316-R's, 15" woofers and 103dB's w/1 watt...Push to much power thru these babies and you'll wind up replacing your picture window in your house. As far as performance goes the old CV's sound a lot better than the new ones (IMHO).

I'm glad you think your CV's operate just fine !

I own a pair of Cerwin Vega AT-100's that were first produced in Germany during the late eighties. My Cerwin Vegas have the same drivers as yours but with better tweets and mids that are also adjustable and my CV's are just as rare as yours. The max wattage they can handle before blowing a fuse is four hundred watts and they can be played at lower volume levels but only by a high watt/amp receiver. I've taken on Polk Audio Studio Monitor Tower speakers, JBL 250ti's and Yamaha NS-1000 without a problem in all volume ranges. But, everyone knows you can't hook up an anemic forty-five to sixty watt receiver or amp up to a pair of Cerwin Vega tower speakers. Unless of course you are using a receiver as a preamp to an amp that's just slightly higher in power.

But really, do you have to go into a tirade about it, I knew someone with a low watt receiver would do some complaining and you have to realize that not all receivers are rated the same. Then too your speakers are in a shorter speaker box so they should respond better to lower amounts of signal. Then since I don't know anything about what is pushing the signal to your speakers. That being the point of it all, what's pushing the signal, the crossover and the space inside the speaker box.
 
"A massive receiver to push a pair of CVs", really??? I don't know about your CV's but the pair I have will rock your house with little power. I have a pair of 316-R's, 15" woofers and 103dB's w/1 watt...Push to much power thru these babies and you'll wind up replacing your picture window in your house. As far as performance goes the old CV's sound a lot better than the new ones (IMHO).

But then seeing your speakers on line, I wouldn't call your speakers tower speakers. I'd say your speakers were mid sized....

What kind of receiver do you have ?
 
I think you're onto something here. After reading this this morning I've dropped the idea of trying to get these to function well with bone crushing rock music. That would work with those other CV speakers that appear to be made exactly for such stuff. I'm now giving this particular set of CV's a chance with other music like classical, broadway and 1950's vocal pop such as sinatra, bobby vinton, etc.
Well guess what.
If what you are saying is correct, then CV hit it out of the park. That it didn't catch on with consumers is unfortunate, but understandable given the CV's reputation for the boom/crash. You don't go to a Jeep dealer looking for something that rides like a Lincoln. These speakers have a quality similar to a pair of University's I had awhile ago, another three way design, but with a 15 inch woofer. Even with that big driver the university's had a hard time with some lower bass passages in the music I just mentioned but excelled with dreamy sounds in the mid/high area. The CV's here have that same dreamy, clear sound BUT bring more bass to the equation than the old universitys. No, not thunderous, but that's not what this music is about.
In summary, I now think I was asking these speakers to do things they were not born to do, but now that I've discovered their calling I'm pretty happy. I may take everything out of the vinyl cabinets, crossover included, and put them in a new home: I picked up a pair of these not long ago, but they contain mediocre drivers from the 60's and sound like a not very good console unit. The CV stuff inside these cabinets might be a very good match.


What I've experienced is adjusting the bass coming out of the receiver before it gets to the EQ, then further adjusting the bass with the EQ depending on the equipments ability. I listen to all styles of music with the exception of country. Sinatra is late fifties, early sixties rat-pack not fifties pop like Bobby Darin and Patty Page. Sorry if I go on like I'm unhinged, but I've been to Iraq too many times. But, from my experience a pair of CV's can be adjusted to suit any musical environment. But all that depends on the equipment you hook the speakers up to.
 
i sold both pairs to a friend that then added 2 more pairs running off a 105wpc onkyo receiver with 3 more onkyo amps at the same power (modern onkyo amps have daisy chain RCA connections, in&out)
I know that the M-282 WRAT amps have that option (line outs),so yeah I'm aware that some of those newer Onkyo amps can be daisy chained like you describe.

Currently I have an Onkyo P-301 preamp (w/remote) and a M-5100 amp (110wpc),this is (more or less) my "back-up" system right now. The intent with this system was to keep it mostly as an all purpose "knock-around" system to use with those CV LS-12's as that whole system was bought on the cheap & cost less < $400.00 total. It would be the sorta system you would'nt mind dragging out & setting up somewhere for a party or such. (And yes,I know how cliche that sounds).

The CV E-712 & those MTX/AAL 212b are gonna be used with my Adcom rack enclosure system,the plan is to let those two pairs of speakers battle it out to see which amp gets to feed which set of speakers,as that rack enclosure has a 200wpc GFA-555 as well as a 100wpc GFA-545 amp in there. The preamp is the GTP-502 (again w/remote) acting in concert with the ACE-515 power conditioner and it also has a Nikko EQ-1 as well as a Yamaha CD-S300RK CD player in there. There is also a HTPC w/a SB Audigy2 Platinum ZS soundcard (w/the IO drive) in there to act as a digital music server.

So yeah,those ^^^^ systems should be able to get good results outta some speakers like these.

BTW,those CV E-712 are more-or-less NIB,and they're in mint condition. I bought them new from J&R music.
Those were bought to replace some generic Kenwood towers that were lost to a fire when the house got struck by lightning back in '04.

The MTX/AAL 212b and CV LS-12 are both in excellent shape as well,both bought locally off CL,but clearly owned by sane adults and well cared for.

Bret P.
 
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